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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Krowbar who wrote (164881)	7/26/2001 7:46:23 PM
From: Ish	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

<<Was Christ wrong in saying that you should pray in private and not in public wrong or not. >> Del, I believe that what Christ meant was that one shouldn't make an overt display of being rightous. Same like when you donate money, you don't make it public to reap a reward. << The first amendment does not give you the right to impose your religion on others.>> The first amendment says the government can't impose a religion.

To: Krowbar who wrote (164881)	7/26/2001 8:05:27 PM
From: PROLIFE	Respond to of 769667

context DK, context. Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. point being----don't be like what the current "religious" leaders had become. if you pray to be elevated of men, or do anything to be elevated, then you have your reward, only on earth. Jesus Himself, took several men up on a mountain to pray, was He refuting his own words? And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, He took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. And again as recorded in John 17, Jesus publicly prayed for himself, for his disciples, and even the whole church that would believe in Him. Was He breaking his own words there too?

To: Krowbar who wrote (164881)	7/26/2001 9:15:29 PM
From: Thomas A Watson	Respond to of 769667

As to what Christ said, well you do not know and I do not know. You are citing words written by St Mathew. And you are reading the best translation of I'd guess Hebrew. In Hebrew there are seven different words for the English word love. So in any translation the English may not capture the exact meaning. As to the public prayer issue you should read the Constitution. As to the meaning of the words in the context of what is being pure of heart. I suggest you read the gospels of St. John and St Luke. But this report of Mathew also speaks to men of good intention who are not hypocrites. Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men. 5:14Ye are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid. 5:15Neither do men light a lamp, and put it under the bushel, but on the stand; and it shineth unto all that are in the house. 5:16Even so let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. In any case your source of the quote or your did not report the words as in the context written. Cutting out words... 6:5And when ye pray, ye shall not be as the hypocrites: for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily say unto you, They have received their reward. 6:6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee. 6:7And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 6:8Be not therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 6:9After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 6:10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. 6:11Give us this day our daily bread. 6:12And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 6:13And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. 6:14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 6:15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. tom watson tosiwmee

To: Krowbar who wrote (164881)	7/26/2001 9:24:22 PM
From: J_F_Shepard	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 769667

"Let me ask you one more time. Was Christ wrong in saying that you should pray in private and not in public wrong or not. As usual you are evading the question." Del....I guess we can never expect anymore of these religious types....We'll never get a straight answer because once caught by their own words they cannot answer directly....They'll frantically search for another passage in the bible which they personally can "intepret" to give them the out they need. It's the real turn off with religion.