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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Solon who wrote (19802)	7/31/2001 3:53:51 AM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

What a load of huey! It is a simple biological fact that a new and unique human life comes into existence at conception. That is neither religious or emotive. Yours is the arbitrary position. Killing a human being at any stage of development is just that, the killing of a human being. You have given no logical reasons to treat the already born any different than the unborn, only emotional appeals. If the unborn are fair game then so is everyone else. That's the cold hard logic you will not deal with. It is no accident that the very young, the very old and those who are unable to stand up for themselves are the victims of this kind of twisted thinking. Did you know that the gas chambers of the death camps were adaptations of mobile units designed to quietly kill elderly, and mentally handicapped patients who were deemed to be a drag on the Nazi's march to new and brighter future? The guy who thought of mass central death camps, apparently attended an execution of some Jews, where he had some PERSON'S brains spattered on his uniform and he became worried that all that blood might be bad for the soldiers morale. Better to depersonalize the process. Killing people before they look like people may sooth your conscience, but it changes nothing. Whether it's in the back of a truck, the bottom of a pit, or in a sterile clinic, the results are all the same, somebody dies. All the talk about insults to humanity, and smudges of sperm are nothing but smoke and mirrors designed to distract from that issue I am off to the marriage of my son this weekend, so I will not be here for awhile. Goodnight.

To: Solon who wrote (19802)	7/31/2001 10:52:09 AM
From: TimF	Respond to of 82486

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG. MOST ABORTIONS ARE IN THE ZYGOTE/EMBRYO STAGE...even before consideraTION OF SPONTANEOUS ABORTIONS. Not according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute agi-usa.org Do you now consider them a poor source for facts and information about abortion? Do you have another source you can link to? Are Sperm A2685 and Egg D2310 PERSONS because they are going to mix it up after this botle of wine? No. Of course not. What they might become is not what they are. They are human life, but so is a hair cell. They are at a stage of development--a datingf stage. The penetration of the egg will be an intimacy stage, and so on. But these gametes coming together in a tiny cell are not people, and they do not form a person. They form ONE CELL. Before the perm and the egg unite they are human life like any other living human cell. After they unite they are A human life. A seperate organism that if placed in a supportive environment and if it survives will develop in to a more complex and developed human life that might argue with us over the internet. 25-75 % of these specks will be killed by Mother Nature--or by God, for those who hold to that particular supernatural belief. If these tiny cells are properly described as persons, then it certainly suggests the question as to why an all powerful and all loving God would bother to slip a soul into the essence of the two gametes--only to kill billions of them? I find it interesting how you are rfering to God and souls in this conversation a lot more then I am. Yes 25-75% of them will die before they are born. 100% of them will die at some point of their life. Neither fact says much about their current status except that they are not immortal. Boxes of sand will not develop into glassware unless we transform them into glassware. A baby will develop into a teenager just as a teenager will develop into an adult and an embryo will develop into a baby. They are all stages of human development. A human at one stage will develop into a human at a different stage. A fertilized chicken egg is a chicken life in the same sense that a fertilized human egg is a human life. If I was a vegitarian I would not eat fertilized chicken eggs. Tim