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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: DMaA who wrote (166773)	8/1/2001 6:10:24 PM
From: asenna1	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

"Can't you see the trap?" You call it a trap. I call it reality. "If god is a fiction, our so called inalienable rights are a fiction." Not at all. An Atheist can acknowledge and grant another person's "inalienable rights" as well and maybe even better as a Theist. Theists have no special reserve on granting rights. In fact, the opposite is frequently true. There really is no need for God to provide more than he possibly already has. And if there really is a God, that "more" is a person's ability to think - and to think forward. "If our rights are only whatever the state says they are then (pardon the expression) God help us" You may want to start praying. That's all we really have. And that's why you and me and everyone else need to always think. Because that's all we can really do. And that is everything. But remember that there are no Answers. There are only beliefs.

To: DMaA who wrote (166773)	8/1/2001 10:23:33 PM
From: Little Joe	Respond to of 769670

"Can't you see the trap? If god is a fiction, our so called inalienable rights are a fiction. If our rights don't come from god, where do they come from? The state? If our rights are only whatever the state says they are..." You have hit the nail on the head, my friend. Remember that at the time the declaration of independence was written there were no democaracies. There were monarchies who were run by Kings or whatever. The dominant theory was the divine right of kings, (which was also based on religion curiously enough). The founders were deeply religious as were most people in the western world at that time. They recognized that a different political theory was necessary which did not rest on the power of the state. The Declartion of Indepence was the expression of this idea. "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator (read god) with certain inalienable rights (read rights which cannot be taken away) and among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (read economic freedom). If our rights come from God the state has no right to take them, if they come from the State they can be taken back by the State. This simple concept is the basis of the Bill of Rights and all of the rights Americans enjoy today including religious freedom. If we cease to believe that these rights are god given, it seems to me we agree that they can be taken away. Little joe