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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (20956)	8/8/2001 2:51:26 PM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 82486

Parents have enormous influence over their children, including the power to make their children miserable for a very long time. At least part of the reason my parents divorced was because my paternal grandmother never quite reconciled herself to her son marrying a shiksa, and also because rather than pointing out that my mother had a lot to deal with, with four children, one handicapped, she continually criticized her housekeeping. Such parents have a lot to answer for. It is much better not to burden your children with your rancor, meanness, and bigotry, but to make the best out of what you can. On entertainment: I do not quite see how one can be categorical in either direction. Yes, the entertainment business is full of anxiety about moving product. On the other hand, these are people who pride themselves on knowing how to impress and motivate, to calculate response and capitalize upon it. Charlie is right, children, and even many adults, are quite impressionable. Steve is right, that mass entertainment will tend to make a sensational appeal, because that is what the mass audience reliably responds to. The fact that a good portion of popular entertainment will aim somewhat low does not, however, over- ride the fact that massive amounts of money are going into promoting objectionable product, product that would not sell nearly so well without the promotion......

To: Lane3 who wrote (20956)	8/8/2001 3:31:56 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I agree, we just can't tell from the article what the father's response would be to his child turning "evil." But keep in mind that evil is just a departure from societal norms. What has been evil in one culture isn't evil in another -- nobody, I think, thought at the time that the rape of the Sabine women was evil, it was just the way the world worked. And there was a time when husbands were legally incapable of raping their wives. Or masters from murdering their slaves. Nor is it just a historical matter -- the use of "comfort women" during WWII was not evil in the eyes of the Japanese, and as recently as a few years ago rape was a political tool in Bosnia (was it Bosnia? or Kosovo? I tend to mingle those areas in my failing mind). So whether, and under what circumstances, rape-murder is evil or not is a societal question. And whether being converted to a duck is a good or bad thing is also a societal questions -- for all we know, there may have been, or may be, cultures in which being turned into a duck is an elevation, (A sort of reverse Buddhism?) The point being, if you are going to accept with open arms your child's rejection of societal norms and adoption of non-societally-approved behaviors, how do you distinguish between those you will celebrate and those you will not? And the article does say, without limitation, "there is nothing that befalls one of his children in which my father is not able to find "a marvelous experience."" That implies that even if one of the children were to be wrongly executed for a murder he did not commit, the father would find something about it which was marvelous. If the author didn't mean to say that, he shouldn't have said it! Well, lunchtime is over and this vicious workday demands my immediate return. I'll e-see you later!

To: Lane3 who wrote (20956)	8/8/2001 3:35:00 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 82486

Addendum: with regard to parental responses to evil, this is at, or at least close to, the other extreme: news.bbc.co.uk And note that distinction made at the end between biological and social bases for discrimination. Wow.

To: Lane3 who wrote (20956)	8/8/2001 4:04:31 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 82486

I read it that way too. It never occurred to me that the dad in the family would say- "WOW, great, your the best darn serial rapist in this state!" I thought it was more an acknowledgment that dad was a great guy, a principled man, but that he could tolerate a certain amount of quirkyness in his children. I think it's probably hard to be a lesbian, and I consider that quirky. But in my opinion it hurts no one. If one of my daughters turned out to be a lesbian I would want her to be the happiest darn lesbian in California. And I'd throw her a big celebration of life partnership instead of a wedding. And I'd love her just the same as I do now. Same for my son, if he wanted to be a homosexual, or a republican, or change genders, or be a duck- I'd still love him (well, he is already a duck, but leaving that aside). As long as what my children do does not harm others, and does not grievously endanger them, I will support them and rejoice in their choices- as long as their choices make them happy, or help them grow.