Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (21035)	8/9/2001 6:21:36 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

I make no claims of any knowledge of poetry, least of all haiku. My comment yesterday about X and her haiku was based solely on the superficial resemblance of her posts to haiku. I didn't have a clue that there were any requirements about syllables. Having said that, I've studied Japanese just enough to comment on an odd difference in the place of syllables in Japanese as opposed to all the western languages I know. The Japanese alphabets don't have a separate entry for each sound, they have an entry for each syllable. So where English or Spanish or German would have a "t" and several vowels, Japanese has a separate entry for each syllable so you have "ta" and "te" and "to" and "ti" and "tu" and then there's "ra" and "re" etc. I don't know that this is relevant, but I wonder if, when we talk about syllables and haiku, we may be thinking incorrectly about what a syllable is. Karen

To: Dayuhan who wrote (21035)	8/9/2001 8:14:09 AM
From: Poet	Respond to of 82486

I know only a wee bit about haiku, but it fits within your description, particularly the importance of spoken rhythm, which diverges from Western concepts of meter, FWIW.

To: Dayuhan who wrote (21035)	8/9/2001 12:22:40 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 82486

The other aspect is whether, though originally based on the Japanese, the haiku form has entered the English poetic genre as a specific form. I do know enough to know that 17 syllables lone don't make a true haiku, that there is an idea structure they are supposed to have, also. But I'm not familiar enough with that to speak about it. The Japenese and Western ideas of art, beauty, form, etc. are so different that it may not make real sense anyhow to try to emulate one culture's forms in the other. But it seems fairly clear that the accepted definition of haiku in the Western tradition is syllabic, whether or not that was part of the original Japanese concept. And the books of Robert vanGulik, who even though writing mysteries was still a considerable Oriental scholar, do indicate that the haiku were originally intended to be spoken, not written, poetry.