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To: PMG who wrote (7050)	8/13/2001 12:04:41 PM
From: Moominoid	Respond to of 74559

They should have just seen sense and merged with Australia <g> The question with NZ is what is the counterfactual. They might likely have done even worse if they had continued on the previous path. They were poor anyway. Liberalization caused a short-term boom which then fizzled. Now they elected a social democratic (Labor) government. Ireland on the other hand has done well by merging in to Europe at the same time as setting low tax rates and the like. Quite a few other countries around here would do better to be part of Australia <g>.

To: PMG who wrote (7050)	8/14/2001 6:12:50 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

<re NZ I somewhere read an article that a lot went wrong when they opened the country and that they are sort of impoverished because the leaders were not clear about the perils of a sudden change to progrssive liberalism > NZ is poor and getting poorer because there is a vast welfare and crime industry which is rewarded by increasing. There was no peril in a sudden change to progressive liberalism. There was peril in continued and increased dole, domestic purposes, Accident Compensation Corporation and other welfare payments. There was peril in continued growth of government laws, regulations and busy-bodying. There was peril in suffocating anyone who tried anything. Helengrad, as the new name of Wellington, named after Prime Minister Helen Clark and Stalingrad is not all in jest! In some ways NZ is improved from 1983, but in many ways it is horrifyingly worse [tortured and murdered children but one example - many children are merely meal tickets for their welfare owners; a kind of child slavery = have child, collect payment]. It is a living nightmare tonight in New Zealand for many children. That will live with those who live for all their lives, which will probably be for another 60 years in many cases. We are building a 50 year problem and have been working on increasing those problems for the past 20 years. It is a sociological disaster which has been created. Fortunately, it's still not much to complain about compared with many other countries, but I do not like it. It shows the damage that ill-advised governments can do. Financial collapses are similarly created by well-meaning ignorance. Mqurice