Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (22086)	8/15/2001 8:45:16 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

One stray quote mouthing that sentiment? Worthless..... Most of the indigenous elites among the colonials, at least in British and French colonies, were educated in cosmopolitan schools reflecting the imperial culture, and many even went to finish their schooling in the imperial country. Thus, their situation was somewhat more complicated than merely being "indigenous". Even today, cricket is the favorite sport in India, and English and French remain the dominant languages of the elites in former colonies........

To: Dayuhan who wrote (22086)	8/15/2001 9:26:03 AM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 82486

Here is a good quote that has the virtue of being official. Of course, no one knowledgeable would say it had been faithfully adhered to: The first full declaration of U.S. policy was embodied in the Northwest Ordinance (1787): The utmost good faith shall always be observed toward the Indians, their lands and property shall never be taken from them without their consent; and in their property, rights, and liberty, they shall never be invaded or disturbed, unless in just and lawful wars authorized by congress; but laws founded in justice and humanity shall from time to time be made, for preventing wrongs being done to them, and for preserving peace and friendship with them. This doctrine was embodied in the act of August 7, 1789, as one of the first declarations of the U.S. Congress under the Constitution. britannica.com

To: Dayuhan who wrote (22086)	8/15/2001 9:29:10 AM
From: Win Smith	Respond to of 82486

I don't want to downplay the clear and obvious damage done by official U.S. policy toward the native population. But I recently read "Undaunted Courage", Stephen Ambrose's book on Lewis and Clark expedition. According to that account, a lot of the western tribes that Lewis and Clark came across had already been decimated by disease contracted from early British and French fur traders.

To: Dayuhan who wrote (22086)	8/15/2001 12:00:52 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 82486

Two points: 1. There were some (perhaps many) Americans who advocated for the rights of the Indians and treated them fairly. William Penn, for example. It wasn't all Americans (or colonists if you prefer) who were out to kill indians. 2. One difference between America and Africa may have been that in Africa, white men were initially viewed in some (many?) cases as Gods. In the Americas, the whites were viewed as invaders. All the Europeans wanted was their land; if the Indians had said "sure, take our land, we'll be glad to move onto small reservations on land you don't want, and move again when that land proves valuable" there would have been no need to kill them. But the Indians resisted, fought settlers, tried to protect their home lands from being taken over. That's why the Indian wars. If they had treated the whites as Gods and propitiated them with anything they wanted, there would have been no need to kill any of them. Ok ok, I'm kidding. But the reality is that it wasn't natural hatred of the Indians or lust for killing that caused their near extermintion; it was that they were in the way and wouldn't get out of the way peacefully and quietly. Manifest destiny vs. the American Indian. Manifest Destiny won. See how easy it is to blame the victim when you want to?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (22086)	8/15/2001 12:51:09 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

And yet there is truth to what Neocon says. There were other instances in which extermination was not the intent and yet the native population dropped 90+% because of disease.

To: Dayuhan who wrote (22086)	8/19/2001 8:28:27 AM
From: Poet	Respond to of 82486

Hi Steve, I saw this in today's paper. What a tragedy, and an avoidable one at that. I hope no one you know was hurt. August 19, 2001 Hotel Fire Kills 70 Near Manila; Security Bars Blocked Escapes By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS UEZON CITY, the Philippines, Aug. 18 — A hotel in this Manila suburb went up in flames today, killing at least 70 people and injuring 54 others, including some taking part in a religious conference sponsored by an American evangelical group. Officials said security bars on the windows and inadequate escape routes may have contributed to the deaths at the Manor Hotel, where almost all of the victims died of smoke inhalation. Chief Superintendent Francisco Senot, head of the Bureau of Fire Protection, said the cause of the fire was probably a short circuit in the ceiling of a third-floor stockroom. Firefighters found victims piled up in bathrooms, where they had apparently tried to escape the smoke. Many were still in their bedclothes. "Without a doubt there would have been more people rescued if there had been no iron grills on the windows," Mayor Feliciano Belmonte said. "There were people hanging out on the windows crying out to be rescued." The hotel had 236 registered guests, the police said. Of those, 172 were taking part in a Christian crusade sponsored by the Don Clowers Ministries, of Irving, Tex. Several Americans came for the conference, but no foreigners were believed to be among the casualties. The police lined up 66 bodies in four rows at a nearby basketball court, covered them with straw mats, took fingerprints and put them in body bags that a priest sprinkled with holy water. Eugene Schwebler, 60, a Don Clowers follower from Wisconsin, said that he tried to flee his fourth- floor room but that heat blocked him. To get to the fire escape, he had to pull an air conditioner from the wall. Mr. Schwebler said he thought the fire started in a restaurant on the third floor, which appeared to have sustained the worst damage. A security guard in an adjacent building said he saw smoke coming from an exhaust fan shortly before 4 a.m. The concrete hotel structure was apparently built in the late 1970's and may have been damaged by fire before, local officials said. Many fire exits were blocked, locked or led to dead ends, and there appeared to be no fire alarms or emergency lights, said Danilo Cabrera, of the Bureau of Fire Protection. The ornate white iron bars that covered many of the windows are a common security device in Manila. Firefighters were able to save 18 people by sawing through the bars. The Quezon City fire marshal was relieved of his duties immediately. At the religious conference today, 8,000 people sang and prayed for victims and their families. Though the Philippines is predominantly Roman Catholic, evangelical ministries are popular among the rural poor. Mr. Clowers, who was in Manila with his wife and son, asked for donations for the victims and said he would cover some expenses related to the fire, but he did not give details.