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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (22799)	8/17/2001 4:13:04 PM
From: one_less	Respond to of 82486

Bingo...You just defined "cluckism." "Politically, groups tend to want attribute prejudice to what is merely non-support of their agenda." Well done.

To: Lane3 who wrote (22799)	8/17/2001 4:20:37 PM
From: Bill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I don't find such prejudice acceptable. As a libertarian, I do not condemn how someone else thinks or feels about something. Actions are what count.

To: Lane3 who wrote (22799)	8/17/2001 4:24:43 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

This thread sure is putting a lot of energy into definitions. Perhaps that's an avoidance technique. Even as I run out the door for an appointment, I have to not let this go by. (Look how much trouble jlallen got into for letting posts go by! LOL) No. Not avoidance at all. Words have to have agreed meanings. Otherwise they are just rocks thrown at each other. Words are the tools of communication. If we let them get bent out of shape, let them lose their clear meanings, communication becomes increasingly more difficult. It's hard enough as it is. Look, for example, at the word "Peace" applied to the Middle East. It's become a useless word because everybody has such a different definition of it. So each side accuses the other of being "against Peace" and by their definition is right. But the exchange of insults further poisons the possibility (mixed metaphor but I really am late and can't be more precise) of achieving what used to be meant by Peace. Word have power, both to hurt and to heal. Look at yesterday. All just words. Poet was strenuously challenging me to define the terms I was using, and I did so because I agreed with her that the meaning of words matters. I'm disappointed that she hasn't followed through on the same principle today. But no, it isn't an avoidance technique. It's an attempt to find out what, really, is being said and meant, what accursations are and are not being made, what behaviors are and are not assumed, etc. Heck, the federal government has to use, what did I once read, 27 pages to define "ladder"? As you well know, almost every serious government report starts or ends with a series of defined terms. That's not avoidance; it's making sure that people have the best possible chance of knowing what they are talking about when they talk seriously. Now I really MUST go. So if I don't answer for a while, don't take any false assumptions from my absence! With applogies for spelling, grammar, etc. errors.

To: Lane3 who wrote (22799)	8/17/2001 5:51:15 PM
From: MulhollandDrive	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

>>I agree with you, which is why I offered bigot. I think it's important to separate prejudice against any group from advocacy of the group's agenda. We often fail to do that. Politically, groups tend to want attribute prejudice to what is merely non-support of their agenda. Racist is used inappropriately, IMO, a lot.<< That is actually a very profound concept put to words and I want to thank you for it. "Labeling" is almost universally a method by which a person demeans the character or motivation of an individual. And "racist" is a prime example. There probably isn't a person in this country who can legitimately claim to be "color blind" and doesn'tbehave in certain ways relative to the race of the person they may be dealing with....But does that make them a "racist"? As in the "Aryan Nation" or "KKK" definition of a racist? Or your garden variety "I'm in a (name the ethnicity) part of town, I stand out, I better be careful" type of "racist". It is a sad thing that more and more in this country, you can't debate policies or attitudes without running the risk of having your integrity besmirched by a claim (unsubstantiated )of "intolerance" , "phobia", "bias", "prejudice" or "anti" any political group seeking redress for either perceived or real grievances. To accuse someone of being "homophobic" as a means of "raising awareness" is akin to asking someone "when did you stop beating your wife" in an effort to point out the problem of spousal abuse. BTW, Karen, I think there's a job somewhere for you in the State Department. (Hopefully a high level position) ;)