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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (25582)	8/31/2001 6:14:21 PM
From: gao seng	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

We recognize them (rights) as being inherent in the nature of man. (Thanks Neocon!) They do not come from society, except to the extent that society recognizes these self-evident truths. But yet, I am still confused on how an agnostic can recognize these self evident truths. Even though there is no religion involved, it begs the question, what makes the nature of man different than the nature of animals. I mean, in the barnyard, the owl decides which mouse to kill tonight, and which ones have the right to live. He has his choice. It is not like he has to take the first opportunity. So he is God to the mice. This is nature. But is this the nature of man? Or is this the wrong question. A society of mice would have self-evident gods. A society of owls, or sharks or some animal species that has no predators (except for man) would presumably live like equals, right? What about a society of sea lions? Where the bachelors never get to mate. Equals? Would that be acceptable to men? I society where only the strongest or smartest or most sociable get to breed? That isn't man's nature. Man's nature is different. Is the law of gravity in place throughout the entire universe? No, it isn't. But the laws of justice are universal. I think all men and women are created equal, both in the eyes of the law, and in form.

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (25582)	8/31/2001 6:37:45 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

All men are in fact NOT created equal. You have to determine what is meant by equal. It's not the same term as identical. Equal in strength, no. Equal in wisdom, intelligence, creative ability, etc., no. But what, IMO, was meant is equal in their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. In those things, they are, or should be equal. You and I should have equal rights to life. What we do with that right is up to us -- we can commit suicide, or we can commit murder understanding that if we are caught we will be subject to being killed. But that doesn't affect the fact that we are created, out of the womb, with that right, it only affects what we do with that right. Similarly, we all have the right to pursue happiness. We may not all achieve it, and those who do achieve it may not achieve it equally, but we aren't guaranteed happiness, just the right to pursue it. (A distinction which some today would like to overlook.) In those things, IMO, we ARE equal, and the role of government is to assure that equality and to preserve those rights.