Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (25625)	9/1/2001 10:00:29 AM
From: average joe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"Enlightened self-interest recognizes that you can successfully optimize your personal gusto long term in a supportive and stable society." No where in the constitution is there an "enlightened self-interest provision". Do you see how these things can't be legislated or forced? Sweeping acts of altruism, noblesse oblige come from individuals. If you are only promoting these ideas because it makes you feel good about yourself I would suggest you don't have an enlightened self-interest but are merely promoting your own agenda. "You moderate your behavior knowing that that approach maximizes your gusto long term. That's why it's enlightened." That is pure brain salad even for you! "As opposed to primitive, immediate self gratification. The benefit to the collective is not the primary purpose, but it is a cooperative benefit. You win. And the collective wins, too. What's not to recognize? What's not to like?" American society is a collective of individuals each pursuing different aims to their own personal benefit. What you describe takes controls and lots of force. "Regarding pedophiles (yet again), regardless of the source of morality, there will always be people who, for whatever reason, do horrible things. Andrea Yates is a perfect example. The fact that there are anomalous acts by anomalous persons does not negate the underlying principle." Oh yes it does. That attitude strips whatever dignity a real victim has left. Go to a rape crisis center and explain to some child that she is really part of the collective and should just take it on the chin.

To: Lane3 who wrote (25625)	9/1/2001 3:24:20 PM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

could a fixed moral order be a clue that there is fixed moral order giver? "If there were one, consistent over time and place, it might." There is, and it does. Try to think of a society where there are completely opposite moral notions to ours. You will look long and hard to find them. The fact is that all societies have very similar notions of what constitutes right and wrong. You can say these have evolved, but I see no hard evidence to that effect. Of course the application of base moral principals can and does vary from culture to culture, but the underlying principals have always been the same. Pointing to unfounded evolutionary theories in the biological realm to validate other evolutionary theories about morality simply compounds error after error. Where is the hard evidence that "man" has ever been anything but man? I find your characterization of "Yates" as A "anomalous", a little odd, as it is she that is acting consistent with evolution, and you who are acting in opposition to it. Do we call the bear who kills his own cubs, in order to bring the female into breading, EVIL????? No! Why do we? Or rather, why do you, since I can be completely consistent in denouncing such behavior as evil. The "golden rule" to use a religious phrase, is not simply pragmatic, it is "right". The very concept of justice and injustice assumes that an ultimate standard of morality, really does exist. Not just in some book, whether secular or religious, but in the real world where people live. We are hard wired for it, yet we all fail to live up to even the minimal standards we expect from others. Yates is but an extreme example of our inability to act in a manner consistent to what we "know" in our heart of hearts to be TRUE. Have to cut this short . My wife needs me. Catch you later. Greg