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To: IngotWeTrust who wrote (75767)	9/2/2001 1:08:28 AM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116833

Say, would you supply some of your erudite explanation of the following quote found elsewhere on this thread? Gold, silver, copper and nickel will increase significantly ... Superconductivity is the wildcard that could send some of these like silver and nickel into orbit once the importance of efficient electrical conductivity is understood by the public. If high temperature superconductivity materials are found practical, ... My questions are these: My postulate is that these raw materials are NOT in short supply either above ground or in proven and probable reserves so I do NOT agree with the writer's conclusion at my current level of understanding. # copper is in short supply in Canada with some miners. Zinc is definitely not in high supply but its price is not robust. Cominco is looking still. Prices do not reflect long term supply. 1) What is "super conductivity" # super con.. is conductivity in some materials like copper-yttrium-niobium alloys at liquid nitrogen temperatures that is without electrical resistance, making magnets high power and transmission at a very low loss rate. We are currently looking for room temperature superconductors. I think we may find them in rare metal-liquids/crystals at low but manageable temperatures. 2) What's the advantage of "high temperature s/c materials" over presumably super cold temp. # energy usage/cost of line to produce low temp and stability of transmission line. Plus the heating of transmission is not as serious a problem to the condition of the line as regards energy drain. apps? small high efficiency electric motors. "free" transmission of energy. Practical mass transportation. electric cars, aircraft. 3) What would it take to make high temp s/c materials "practical." # Lots of research. If they were high temp and high current density (present low temp SC's are low density then they break down so applications are limited.) then they would be cheap and easy to implement and practical/efficient. 4) How far away is the re-tooling and impact of s/c on our daily and corporate lives? # It is used in magnetic detection devices today (SQUIDS) for certain high tech application devices. Some magnetic geophysical surveys have been done with SQUIDS but they are high cost. Answer is it is far away until costs come down and temp gets higher for SC effect. I'm one of the "public" that writer is addressing, and he's right...I don't hear much about super conductivity, let alone understand much re: practical applications that would make current proven and probable mineral resources, especially in copious nickel and copper output, "go up in price" # well, it's one of those popular science type predictions of 50 years from now that never come true. Every single prediction in PS from the 50's we are still waiting for. Practicality and necessity are what drive man's quests. the bottom line. Keeps looney science at bay. But SC at room temp would be an enormous boon, lowering energy costs and reducing power needs. Class is in session...and use $0.25 words instead of $4.00 on this one, okay? I just know about plugging in my toaster and my toothbrush. Will I get quicker toast in the mornings and a brighter Colgate smile when I understand superconductivities applications? # definitely. Toast will be browner, hotter and teeth whiter, if and only if they have something to sell that is white hot in turns of monetary return -- and it is the toy of the month. # I think a Room Temperature, SuperConducting Toaster powered by Liquid Helium plugging into a solid-carbon-dioxide jet-powered tooth brush, with nitric-acid tooth-paste would be the ideal way to start your day. Really freshen your mouth and would win friends far and wide. Set you on fire, so to speak. As a matter of fact, I think if you used that system regularly, people would have a hard time keeping up with you. EC<:-/{}

To: IngotWeTrust who wrote (75767)	9/2/2001 1:32:18 AM
From: ubetcha	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116833

Energy realities for the masses: 1. In order to generate electricity it takes other energy. This is usually in the form of coal, oil, nuclear, or natural gas. The amount of energy necessary to procure electricity with fossil fuels is several times the amount of energy out. In other words, the amount of energy out is only 30-35% of the energy in. In addition to this, there is an energy loss in the transportation of this energy. (The large transmission towers) If you are transmitting power very far, the amount of power loss can be quite high, sometimes in the range of 20-30% or higher. What you pay to use your toaster takes all this into consideration. Super Conductivity is a means to correct this situation, and to get the power to you much more efficiently. Look at it as the difference between your facet in your home, and a fire hydrant. What if you could get the same amount of water out of your facet as you could a fire hose without changing the size of your facet with a 4" pipe! That is possible with water, by increasing the pressure. Cannot do that with electricity. The transmission system for electricity is set up at a certain pressure (voltage). Therefore the only solution is to make the carrier more efficient. Walla! Superconductivity. 2. It is more efficient to do this energy wise at a higher temperature. They are now trying to get this process to occur at higher temperatures. The original superconductor was done at absolute 0. "O"-degrees Kelvin. The current mode is to do this at a much higher temperature. (Still Cold) 3. It is practical now if the price of energy is high enough. 4. It is my opinion that it will become practical sometime in the next 10 years. For more info go to: eren.doe.gov

To: IngotWeTrust who wrote (75767)	9/2/2001 2:46:19 AM
From: c.hinton	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116833

economist.com "First pratical superconducting power cables are now being installed" Summary:American Superconductor of Westborough,Mass. installing superconducting power lines in detroit. Cost:$200/kiloamp/meter,hopes to lower cost to $50/kiloamp/meter cost for copperwires,$25/kiloamp/meter Composition:ceramic core,Silver casing Cooled to 77 kelvin by liquid nitrogen which is stated to be relatively cheap. Artical goes on to say that real savings occure due to ability to increase by 10 fold the capacity using existing conduits.No need to dig up streets to lay new conduits that would be nessicary for a 10 fold increase using copper cables.

To: IngotWeTrust who wrote (75767)	9/2/2001 10:27:48 PM
From: John Soileau	Respond to of 116833

Hey Ole, watch superconductors, check in from time to time. Early on superconductivity could be produced only near absolute zero; it was, like so many things, interesting, expensive and not practical. Then they had a breakthrough with copper oxide compounds, brought the temp up a lot(and cost down). But the compounds are typically not ductile, hard to put to useful tasks, and not yet really cheap. Recently another class of compounds was found which superconduct at even higher temps, but no one has yet found the holy grail of room temperature superconductors. WHEN they find a room temperature superconductor that can be worked into wires etc it will allow power transmission over long distance with essentially no resistive loss. Also extremely efficient electric motors, long term power storage without loss, etc. That will really change things. For example, California utilities will be able to use existing plants to generate all night and store the power, without loss, for use during peak demand during the day, and they will be able to avoid the transmission loss to boot. That will allow enormous savings for the power industry, for one. Definitely bears watching, but of course noone knows when the room temp breakthrough will happen. Maybe a year, maybe 20 who knows. John