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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mani1 who wrote (3186)	9/6/2001 1:25:08 AM
From: chalu2	Respond to of 23908

American Women Heather Mercer and Dana Curry Targeted for Hanging in Afghanistan for Speaking of their Christian Faith to Others; Justice Muslim-Style Draws Silence at Durban. sg.news.yahoo.com Wednesday September 5, 3:22 PM Taliban judge warns foreigners could be hanged in Afghanistan KABUL, Sept 5 (AFP) - The Taliban Islamic militia's chief justice Wednesday warned that eight foreigners on trial for preaching Christianity in Afghanistan could be hanged if found guilty. Chief Justice Mawlawi Noor Mohammad Saqib gave the clearest indication so far that execution is an option under the Taliban's radical brand of Islamic law as the trial of the two Americans, two Australians and four Germans entered its second day. "We will give them punishment according to Islamic law, whether imprisonment or hanging," he was quoted as saying by Pakistan-based private news agency Afghan Islamic Press. "We will punish them according to the laws they have broken. If they have broken the law and should be hanged then we will punish them like that." The aid workers were arrested along with 16 Afghans more than four weeks ago but the charges and likely punishment have not been fully explained. The Afghans are likely to face a separate legal process. The Taliban Supreme Court began the trial of the foreigners, without the defendants and behind closed doors, on Tuesday despite promises that diplomats and journalists would be allowed to observe the proceedings. Officials said Saqib and senior Islamic scholars were meeting again Wednesday as the trial entered its second day. The chief justice reiterated the defendants would receive a fair hearing and would be allowed to hire Afghan or foreign lawyers even though it is not common practice in Afghan courts. "We have no objection if they hire their own lawyers, whether Muslim or foreign," he said. Saqib, who is understood to have learnt Islamic law at a Pakistani madrassa, or seminary, said the court still had not decided whether to allow independent monitoring of the trial. "If they want to defend themselves they can, but it is not necessary that others are present in the court. If the judges allow us then we will give them (the diplomats) permission," he said. "We are reviewing (the prisoners') files and we are checking the Islamic codes against these violations. Whenever we feel it is necessary we will ask them to appear in court." Once the verdict is reached, it will be handed to Taliban chief Mullah Mohammad Omar for final approval. The defendants are being kept at an undisclosed place of detention. They have had rare meetings with Red Cross workers, relatives and diplomats, and are said to be in good health. American, Australian and German diplomats, who arrived in Kabul last week hoping to organise a legal defence and monitor the trial, demanded to meet Saqib Wednesday and clarify the legal process, but they were turned away. They were barred from entering the Surpreme Court building and were told their presence would be requested when it was deemed necessary. A visibly shaken Australian consul, Alastar Adams, said the envoys were being "kept in the dark" and demanded to know how the Taliban planned to proceed with the trial. "We want to know what's going on," he told AFP outside the court. "It's too bad that we have been kept completely in the dark about the trial, which we understand has started. "We have been waiting patiently for more than a week now and none of the Taliban officials have responded to our pleas." The accused are Americans Heather Mercer and Dana Curry, Australians Diana Thomas and Peter Bunch and Germans George Taubmann, Silke Duerrkopf, Margrit Stebner and Kati Jelinek. It is the first time foreigners have been charged with preaching Christianity in Afghanistan.

To: Mani1 who wrote (3186)	9/6/2001 12:27:07 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

Mani, what is strengthening the anti-Arab elements in the Israeli government is the complete and utter failure to find a peace partner in Yassir Arafat. After eight years of Israel (and the US and Europe and the Arabs) giving Arafat legitimacy, money, and land so that he could establish a Palestinian state, what do we find? The money is in the Swiss bank accounts of Arafat and his cronies, no economic development has occurred, there is no rule of law anywhere in the PA, just mobster rule of various factions (Arafat runs thriving extortion and cartheft rackets). Then Arafat refuses Barak's offers without a counteroffer, declares that Oslo was a ruse and starts a guerilla war using land and guns that Israel gave him. So the Israeli peace camp has collapsed, the middle has moved right, and the right (including the anti-Arab hard right) has strengthened. Should anybody in the world be surprised at this?

To: Mani1 who wrote (3186)	9/6/2001 12:28:14 PM
From: TimF	Respond to of 23908

You can compare even the opposites so your statement has no merit. I should have said "to state or imply that they are similar". Also it is by belief that some (strengthening) elements in the Israeli government are so extreme, so discriminatory and so anti Arab that in some ways resemble some similarity with Nazi government in the early 1930's. Arguably this might be true (if you emphasize "in some ways") but these elements would be extremely small and Sharon has not shown Hitler like attitudes even if he has shown himself to be somewhat extreme. However stating that "some elements may resemble Hitler in some ways" gives the impression that a significant element in Israel is really like Hitler and would subject the Arabs to death camps and would not shy away from killing millions of Arabs just because they are Arabs. That impression would not be based on facts. I'm not sure if it was one you where trying to make or not. If all you meant was that some hateful people with extreme views have some influence in Israel then you would be right but 1 - You could have just said that rather then using the statement about Hitler, and 2 - Many countries do have such extreme and hateful elements. In fact I would think all countries do to a greater or lesser extent. I do not base my opinions on whether people decide to listen to it or ignore it. And you shouldn't, however if you are trying to convince people then you might base the way you present your opinion on how people would react to it. You can talk about how there are extreme and hateful elements in Israel and people might pay attention and even look in to it more themselves, but if you compare Israel to Hitler's Germany then most people will just tune you out. Either way you are not changing your opinion, or even refraining from posting your opinion, just chosing a way to present it. Tim