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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Neocon who wrote (26314)9/8/2001 4:27:38 PM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 82486
 
Well an extremely fairly thought out answer Neo....

I appreciate the time taken for the response & will
think about your thoughts...

Hope your wife "wows" them with brilliance in washington !
Is she as multifaceted as you ?

;-)



To: Neocon who wrote (26314)9/10/2001 2:32:10 AM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 82486
 
Thinking is great, but the miraculous is a different thing.......



yes , imagination and wonder are
the miraculous things
(besides thinking )

Certainly, at least, there was confusion. That has no bearing, it seems to me, on the general conception of a final day of judgment, though, where the present world ends, and the world to come begins. If one is basing the belief on the Bible, of course, there may be some shakiness of belief to notice the confusion.

and the idea that God may seek to resolve all issues at a particular time, so that goodness may triumph, it seems to me that it could happen,


Well it is a wonderful cosmology , that ....and certainly has
been a fascinating --->spell binding story that has
enthralled so many for 1000's of years <gg>

We have seen this story come from out of just so many
Myth-belief systems , of a world with it's trickster
little devil/coyote/Loki confusing the mortals evily
but that one day comes where the armies of the
forces of Good array against the growing powers of
darkness and corruption...

A Baldur/Apollo/Aman-Ra .Jesus /Messiah /Last Prophet
comes to save the day and restore the balance ...or an
Avatar. But also a kind of a self-fulling prophecy that
inherently leads to more division between
the tribes of man , this duality ...of judgement
and good and evil.

It was one of the first convenient ways man first began to
percieve the world of the temporal arrayed before him .
Dualism achieves it's pinnacle in the great archived
religion of Empire , of Roman Christianity...but
I think there is a more subtle distinction when
the reality is examined
even further .

This is seen today , with the rise of the secular
and yearning people feel for something more in their
minds and hearts , a metaphor for something even
more enduring and see's a unity of experience
rather than a trinity pitted against
a primevil devil .

Dualism is in it's last days i think in the minds
of people today ...those theologies that struggle to
preserve their base and esssence in this first born
mind-set and cosmology will eventually be
forced to morph , and something new , more subtlely
alligned to the reality of life and existence
will take its place...

But as humans , we always did love a good
messiah story/movie, but the preparation for living one's
life can go on fulfillingly without all the allusions
of angels , and devils , final days
of judgment , etc etc.



To: Neocon who wrote (26314)9/10/2001 3:19:51 AM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 82486
 
I am not sure what I am supposed to get from the question about the world, nor can I recall offhand how many elements are at work now. As a physcial being, I am subject to a variety of forces. As far as I know, human beings do not, per se, have instinctual behavior. They have instinctual drives, but their
behavior is cultural


Well , given the technologies we have today to provide
for the needs and welfare of humans , I was only
trying to point out that there is a myriad of
elements , drives , instincts, and traits within
you that do not have to be looked upon
as intrinsically "Evil"...or fallen
any longer, by a religious-culture fighting for
it's survival in a modern world .

What was regarded as imperfect , can be now looked
upon as quite the miracle actually , Neo .
Not a mind/body/soul disconnected from a "God" ,
that has been pushed down on people's imaginations
for so long....

I was thinking more along the lines of man as a self
actualizing creature , still mired with ties to that
ancient belief system that have made people dependent
for centuries on classes of priests and a mindset
they are fallen and hopelessly lost ....and saved
only by magic ritual and
supplication .

Perhaps I was leaning towards Maslow and the right to be
human , of self -actualization , and the understanding of the
true rational basis of the hierarchy of
human needs ...and their fulfillment ...
sans miracles, devils and angels .

He believed that the only reason that people would not move through the needs to self-actualization is because of the hindrances placed in their way by society. For example, education is often a hindrance with imposed
ideas of the culture.

Amongst all the examples of lives lived we can observe
there does seem to be a blueprint for successsful
living , and living well within
your own skin.

It's perfectly OK though, for you to think
that God may choose to step in at some point , and
resolve the issues....if that makes you
feel "connected"...



To: Neocon who wrote (26314)9/10/2001 4:32:24 AM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 82486
 
Maslow Hierarchy of Human Needs

Aside from the people with emotional limitations and problems, there were times when man was at his best. Although Maslow avoided the word "spiritual", he did introduce psychology to truth, goodness, beauty, unity, transcendence, aliveness, uniqueness, perfection, justice, order and simplicity. These values he called "B-values".

Before Abraham Maslow, the psychological world was awash in behaviorism and psychoanalysis. Maslow changed this focus on broken brains, by popularizing psychological humanism. Famous people like Abraham Lincoln were subjects of study instead of people with broken brains. One of Maslow's most important contributions to psychology was his theory of human needs, developed in the late 1960's. This theory explained that human needs where hierarchical in nature.

Maslow, perhaps the greatest humanistic psychologist, past away due to a fatal heart attack on June 8, 1970. Many of his books and papers were written towards the end of his life.

He believed that people are not merely controlled by mechanical forces (the stimuli and reinforcement forces of behaviorism) or unconscious instinctual impulses of psychoanalysis, but should be understood in terms of human potential. He believed that humans strive to reach the highest levels of their capabilities.

People seek the frontiers of creativity, and strive to reach the highest levels of consciousness and wisdom. People at this level and below were labeled by other psychologists as "fully functioning" or possessing a "healthy personality". Maslow called the people who were at the top "self-actualizing" persons.

Maslow set up a hierarchical theory of needs. The animal or physical needs were placed at the bottom, and the human needs at the top. This hierarchic theory can be seen as a pyramid, with the base occupied be people who are not focused on values, but just staying alive.

A person who is starving dreams about food, thinks about food and nothing else. Each level of the pyramid is some what dependent on the previous level for most people. Maslow Hierarchy of Needs (rephrased) includes seven levels:

Physiological Needs. Biological needs such as oxygen, food, water, warmth/coolness, protection from storms and so forth. These needs are the strongest because if deprived, the person could or would die.

Safety Needs. Felt by adults during emergencies, periods of disorganization in the social structure (such as widespread rioting). Felt more frequently by children who often display signs of insecurity and their need to be safe.

Love, Affection and Belongingness Needs. The needs to escape loneliness and alienation and give (and receive) love, affection and the sense of belonging.

Esteem Needs. Need for a stable, firmly based, high level of self-respect, and respect from others in order to feel satisfied, self confident and valuable. If these needs are not met, the person feels inferior, weak, helpless and worthless.

Self-actualization Needs. Maslow describes self-actualization as an ongoing process. Self-actualizing people are... involved in a cause outside their own skin. The are devoted, work at something, something very precious to them--some calling or vocation, in the old sense, the priestly sense. When you select out of a careful study, very fine and healthy people, strong people, creative people, saintly people, sagacious people... you get a different view of mankind. You ask how tall can people grow, what can a human being become?

Maslow also describes self-actualization as a person's need to be and do that which the person was born to do. It is his "calling". "A musician must make music, an artist must paint, and a poet must write." If these needs are not met, the person feels restlessness, on edge, tense, and lacking something. Lower needs may also produce a restless feeling, but here is it much easier to find the cause. If a person is hungry, unsafe, not loved or accepted, or lacking self-esteem the cause is apparent. It is not always clear what a person wants when there is a need for self-actualization.
Maslow believes that the only reason that people would not move through the needs to self-actualization is because of the hindrances placed in their way by society. For example, education is often a hindrance with imposed ideas of the culture. On the other hand respectful teaching promotes personal growth. Maslow indicated that educational process could take some of the steps listed below to promote personal growth:

We should teach people to be authentic; to be aware of their inner selves and to hear their inner-feeling voices.

We should teach people to transcend their own cultural conditioning, and become world citizens.

We should help people discover their vocation in life, their calling, fate or destiny. This is especially focused upon finding the right career and the right mate.

We should teach people that life is precious, that there is joy to be experienced in life, and if people are open to seeing the good and joyous in all kinds of situations, it makes life worth living.

We must accept the person and help him or her learn their inner nature. From real knowledge of aptitudes and limitations we can know what to build upon, what potentials are really there.

We must see that the person's basic needs are satisfied. That includes safety, belongingness and esteem needs.

We should refreshen consciousness, teaching the person to appreciate beauty and the other good things in nature and in living.

We should teach people that controls are good, and complete abandon is bad. It takes control to improve the quality of life in all areas.

We should teach people to transcend the trifling problems and grapple with the serious problems in life. These include the problems of injustice, of pain, suffering and death.

We must teach people to be good choosers. They must be given practice in making choices, first between one goody and another.

More on Maslow:
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