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Gold/Mining/Energy : Canadian REITS, Trusts & Dividend Stocks -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Goldberry who wrote (1361)	9/9/2001 4:44:24 PM
From: Lorne Larson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 11633

Empress NG prices for the 1st 8 days of September averaging $2.15 Cdn. Anyone figuring yields would be wise not to concern themselves with trailing distributions. My guess is NG prices will go lower over the next 2-3 months. The hedges put in place by many of the trusts expire at the end of the year. The big question is whether NG prices will recover by the time the hedges start coming off. Will be very interesting to see what distribution is announced by SHN later this month for October payment. This trust is about 75% gas, does very little hedging, and pays out quarterly rather than monthly. Distributions for April and July were $1.10 each. I'm guessing around .65-.70 for October, decreasing to .35-.40 for January if NG prices don't improve. I'm going to short it after the X-dividend date this month. Still long AY, VKR and PVE, which are more oil-weighted.

To: Goldberry who wrote (1361)	9/9/2001 5:16:30 PM
From: Peter W. Panchyshyn	Respond to of 11633

comparing apples and oranges ------------ Not really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The energy trusts have a limited lifetime ------------- You make the assumption that all these trusts do is start with a fixed amount then let that amount run out (deplete) then they just fold their operations and close down. That is far from the truth. These trusts actively replace amounts over time. A few have been around for close to 2 decades. With plans to be around for much longer. ---------------------- and part of the payment is for the depleting asset. A real estate trust on the other hand gives a P/E based on the asset depreciating but in effect history has shown that the real estate asset over time actually appreciates. -------------- the same too can be said for the oil and gas royalty trusts. All one has to do is look to the data, the history. Pengrowth PGF.UN came onto the market at $7 in 1985. And where is it now $17. Looking to some others show less in a much shorter time frame but gains nonetheless. I think AY.UN came out at $10 and it is just under $11. When unit prices recover because of a future rise in the commodity prices you will see that gain again as was the case before this latest collapse. Everything cycles from up to down. The only and best difference with the trusts is that you get a good income stream between these up and down periods. While others like stocks ( as was being put forward George) dont pay much in the way of anything. And when a downturn comes the paper gains just disappear leaving the investor with nothing. The trusts (oil and gas) give much better TOTAL returns. And that is what the data and history really do show. -------------------

To: Goldberry who wrote (1361)	9/9/2001 7:19:44 PM
From: trustmanic	Respond to of 11633

Graham, If income trusts have a limited life time...at least you know your LAST DAYS... It is much better than 360 network, Laidlaw, Loewan etc.. these stocks are market darling in the past. They are dead now. Some tech stocks have no life at all. These days high payment is king. George

To: Goldberry who wrote (1361)	9/10/2001 9:44:31 AM
From: Cogito Ergo Sum	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 11633

Hi Graham, re: Apples and Oranges I don't think it is a clear cut as that. I think that is more true of the American trusts. The Canadian ones I'm following either have reserves that are so large eg COS that it is not a concern (to me) for anything but the really long term or are actively growing reserves through acquisitions, NCF, PWI etc.. in much the same fashion as larger E&P's eg Conoco/Gulf Devon/Andersen ..... regards Kastel a cute and Cuddly Canadian Subject 51596