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To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (3318)	9/10/2001 11:13:05 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Respond to of 23908

The traumatic displacement of "native" people (the majority of whom had been there for less than a generation) happened because the Arabs refused to accept the UN partition and six Arab armies invaded. If they had accepted the partition nobody would have been displaced.

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (3318)	9/10/2001 11:45:07 AM
From: LV	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

<<…what most anti-Zionists reproach Israel with is not as much its existence proper as THE WAY Israel was set up.>> Look, Israel is the fact of life, has been for over 50 years. If you wanted to argue against establishment of Israel, you should have done so in 1942. Right now, you may just as well ramble about carving of Belgium out of Holland and France. And if you are worried about the Palestinians, you should look for practical solutions to relieve their plight rather than use every opportunity to whip up frenzied passions for lynching the Jews. << I mean, there'd never be such a fuss about Israel if, back in 1947, Jewish settlers decided to inaugurate their brand new Eretz Israel right in the midst of the Sahara Desert, or in Patagonia, or in a Pacific archipelago...>> To the best of my knowledge all habitable land is inhabited. You have never heard of Saharan Berbers, or Patagonian Indians, or Pacific Islanders? I think you just offended some more people.

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (3318)	9/10/2001 12:38:16 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 23908

You perfectly know that what most anti-Zionists reproach Israel with is not as much its existence proper as THE WAY Israel was set up Hmmm... and giving a minor member of the Arab Hashemite tribe control over a significant portion of Palestine (Jordan) was "alright"? Jordan is over 60% Palestinian, yet it is ruled by an Arab. Or tell us why the minority Alawite population in Syria possess almost total control over the predominantly Sunni population of that nation.. Or what about the Coptic Christians of Egypt, who's cultural heritage can be consistently traced back some 2,000 years, yet are ruled over by an artificially imposed government of Sunnis and Secularist Muslims, who have inhabited Egypt only since the 7 century AD. The entire REGION is composed of artificial borders and boundaries, which were forced upon the indigenous people. Now tell me about what right anti-Zionists have to complain about how Israel was "set up".. And even the exaggerated claims about Zionism being an extension of western imperialism pales in comparison to REAL ATTEMPTS by Arab leaders to create such entities as "Greater Syria", or the United Arab Republic. Placing the Jews in Madagascar, or some Pacific Island would have been a form of imperialism, since there existed no cultural tie to those regions (and you'd be hard pressed, either then, or now, to find a completely uninhabited island that could accomodate millions of displaced Jews). And it certainly hasn't helped that so many Arab nations have brutalized their indigenous Jewish populations to the extent that they have been forced to emigrate to Israel, thus compounding the problem of Palestinian displacement. Many Israelis can easily justify expropriating land from the Palestinians as just compensation for being required to accept and integrate their own displaced population of Oriental Jewry. Hawkmoon

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (3318)	9/10/2001 12:43:03 PM
From: Thomas M.	Respond to of 23908

to say nothing of their savage scattering. Precisely. It was not the presence of Jews that created trouble. Jews and Arabs lived in Palestine peacefully. It was the entrance of Zionists in the late 1800s / early 1900s that upset the social dynamics. Their racist doctrine and their zealous desire to displace Palestinians angered the natives. Tom

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (3318)	9/10/2001 6:23:02 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

. I mean, there'd never be such a fuss about Israel if, back in 1947, Jewish settlers decided to inaugurate their brand new Eretz Israel right in the midst of the Sahara Desert, or in Patagonia, or in a Pacific archipelago... that is, in an uninhabited region where a massive influx of foreigners wouldn't result in the traumatic displacement of native people If the Zionists had brought as much economic development to Patagonia as they did to Palestine, it too would have been heavily settled by the time they declared their state there. Arab population expansion in Palestine did not precede Zionism; it followed Zionism.