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To: KipferlMeister who wrote (7675)9/12/2001 7:52:24 AM
From: TheBusDriver  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 14101
 
Mike....maybe just maybe it will be different this time. I sense a change in attitude toward terror and those who harbor them......

as far as I am concerned war has been declaired on the US and we should act accordingly, maybe it is a good thing I am not "in charge".

wayne



To: KipferlMeister who wrote (7675)9/12/2001 8:38:01 AM
From: E. T.  Respond to of 14101
 
"th truly important words are the words of support that will be missing for whatever way the US chooses to react." Not so, Canada has supported the U.S. in almost all military action it has decided to enter. Don't forget Canada's Ambasador Taylor who smuggled American citizens out of Iran. And you can check out the long lines at blood donation clinics in Toronto where hordes of people are coming out of wood work to give blood that is supposed to be heading to New York. Hardly a "hollow" response to tragic events.



To: KipferlMeister who wrote (7675)9/12/2001 11:03:01 AM
From: Montana Wildhack  Read Replies (5) | Respond to of 14101
 
M Veit,

We shouldn't confuse arguing over softwood lumber versus
protecting the freedom of our societies. It is basic
principle that people who don't agree have the right to
speak in the US. The most critical commentary will come
from the yahoo's in those bunkers in the mid-west. Not
from Canada.

I can understand why you ask that because the US does
receive criticism from the world on various issues - but
thats because you're the world's only superpower militarily
and because of the US's power economically.

The US in my view is not overly worried about the comments
of other countries. It is appropriately concerned - but
does not shirk. No country does everything right and the
US has the right to protect its own interests.

I am satisfied overall with the balance the US achieves
and much prefer the US's focus on itself and everything
American versus expansion geographically.

The US is the only country in history I know of that twice
has been in the position of world domination and twice
went home instead to play baseball, make movies, and
enjoy the good life.

Think about that.

It is that leadership in teaching (by example) the planet
to focus on life and not military expansion which has
caused more and more countries to seriously pursue the
benefits of capitalism.

This is 21st century warfare against capitalism. All
capitalist countries are equally threatened. The towers
in Kuala Lumpur were immediately evacuated (tallest in
the world).

It requires us to identify that war is not now country
against country so much as in all centuries before the
21st - but is ideology versus ideology.

Not skin color or religion versus other colours or dogma
- but individuals of fanatisicm versus individuals of
accomodation.

but the truly important words are the words of support that will be missing for whatever way the US chooses to react. Knowing that, I have to say that all these sentiments of condolence ring a bit hollow.

That sentence is so American. Don't ever change.

The truth is we will now see America's unbelievable
strength when it determines to do something and it
will take the leadership it has repeatedly shown it does
not really want since its busy with its own life.

All of the people killed in this attack in New York were
all of us. Ordinary people pursuing our lives. THAT is
what is being threatened by fanatical individuals.

You will see the support when America leads the defence
of that.

God bless,

Wolf
Canada



To: KipferlMeister who wrote (7675)9/12/2001 7:07:25 PM
From: Mark Bartlett  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 14101
 
Mike,

The terrible acts that were committed yesterday were felt and mourned by all throughout the free world.

Nothing can condone what was done.

People everywhere were stunned and sat in silence, most not being able to work. My colleague beside me at work was in tears worrying about her friend who worked in that area. Today she had tears of relief, as she finally learned she was OK.

I heard this morning about a little girl at one of our schools who was taken down to the principal's office to be told that she no longer had a father. A singular event here (that I am aware of) but I have no doubt that it will be played out thousands of times in the US.

52,000 Torontonians phoned the emergency support services to open their homes to stranded passengers. Blood donour clinics were overflowing with people to donate blood for the US. Several hospitals cancelled elective surgeries to accommodate trauma cases that were to be flown up from the US.

I only recount some of this to you, to show how wide-spread events like happened yesterday actually impact. Do not for one minute think that there aren't millions of non-Americans around this globe who do not care, grieve, and give full support to the US.

Yesterday, like millions of others, I have to say I was mourning too. At times like this, words have not been created -- at least any that I know -- that adequately express the sorrow and shock that one feels.

I can tell you that I feel how you feel. All of us that post on this board feel it too.

Mike -- I am sorry for America, but I am also sorry for all people in this world that abhor such cowardly and despicable violence and only wish that peace, harmony and respect for all people and nations would prevail.

I guess today I found a few more words than yesterday. I hope they might, in some small way, provide a window on how this "neighbour to the north" felt, to be part of September 11, 2001.

Take care, my friend.

Mark



To: KipferlMeister who wrote (7675)9/13/2001 4:48:07 AM
From: twentyfirstcenturyfox  Respond to of 14101
 
Mike and others: please excuse my words - obviously they did not reflect my thoughts, nor my horror at what madmen can still do today. They were meant to counsel patience. Even though I think patience will help avoid mistakes which could lead to a world war, I was naive. This was an act of war. But the war you will have to fight against terrorists has to be different from any war we have seen before.
It is my desire to see the US, with the free world supporting you, hound down to hell, not only those who helped commit this madness, but also those who harboured, financed and supported in any way, what happened.
You ask <I wonder what, in the view of our friends to the north, the appropriate reaction would be>.
From SE Asia: the appropriate action? It will be to lead the way. As it has been and always will be, God willing.
Not a lurker, just a sulker since $14. Fox.



To: KipferlMeister who wrote (7675)9/13/2001 9:31:38 AM
From: Cal Gary  Respond to of 14101
 
Hi M (Mike?)

Welcome to the thread.

There will be as many opinions as there are people. Much if not all you wrote has truth in it. Even ...
<I have to say that all these sentiments of condolence ring a bit hollow.
>

The terrorist will be hiding behind skirts and children. They will be masters of reverse pyschological. <as soon as the first malnourished child is shown to the media> They will ruthlessly use whatever is to their advantage.

DMX opens at 5.39



To: KipferlMeister who wrote (7675)9/13/2001 10:00:28 PM
From: Mad2  Respond to of 14101
 
This is today's column from Leonard Pitts. He writes for The Miami
Herald:

It's my job to have something to say.
They pay me to provide words that help make
sense of that which troubles the American
soul. But in this moment of airless shock
when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the
only thing I can find to say, the only words
that seem to fit, must be addressed to the
unknown author of this suffering.

You monster. You beast. You unspeakable
bastard.

What lesson did you hope to teach us by your
coward's attack on our World Trade Center,
our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we
would learn? Whatever it was, please know
that you failed.

Did you want us to respect your cause? You
just damned your cause.

Did you want to make us fear? You just
steeled our resolve.

Did you want to tear us apart? You just
brought us together.

Let me tell you about my people. We are a
vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent
by racial, social, political and class
division, but a family nonetheless. We're
frivolous, yes, capable of expending
tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural
minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a
ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse.

We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready
availability of trinkets and material goods,
and maybe because of that, we walk through
life with a certain sense of blithe
entitlement. We are fundamentally decent,
though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We
struggle to know the right thing and to do
it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of
us, people of faith, believers in a just and
loving God.

Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that
any or all of this makes us weak. You're
mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are
strong in ways that cannot be measured by
arsenals.

Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning
and we are in shock. We're still grappling
with the unreality of the awful thing you
did, still working to make ourselves
understand that this isn't a special effect
from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the
plot development from a Tom Clancy novel.
Both in terms of the awful scope of their
ambition and the probable final death toll,
your attacks are likely to go down as the
worst acts of terrorism in the history of
the United States and, probably, the history
of the world. You've bloodied us as we have
never been bloodied before.

But there's a gulf of difference between
making us bloody and making us fall. This is
the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter
sorrow the last time anyone hit us this
hard, the last time anyone brought us such
abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we
are righteous in our outrage, terrible in
our force. When provoked by this level of
barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay
any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit
of justice.

I tell you this without fear of
contradiction. I know my people, as you, I
think, do not. What I know reassures me. It
also causes me to tremble with dread of the
future.

In the days to come, there will be
recrimination and accusation, fingers
pointing to determine whose failure allowed
this to happen and what can be done to
prevent it from happening again. There will
be heightened security, misguided talk of
revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward
from this moment sobered, chastened, sad.
But determined, too. Unimaginably
determined.

You see, the steel in us is not always
readily apparent. That aspect of our
character is seldom understood by people who
don't know us well. On this day, the
family's bickering is put on hold.

As Americans we will weep, as Americans we
will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise
in defense of all that we cherish.

So I ask again: What was it you hoped to
teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you
just wanted us to know the depths of your
hatred. If that's the case, consider the
message received. And take this message in
exchange: You don't know my people. You
don't know what we're capable of. You don't
know what you just started.

But you're about to learn.

mad2