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To: limtex who wrote (104413)	9/12/2001 10:18:03 AM
From: waverider	Respond to of 152472

>>We will eventually have to face the main issue and that is the clash of cultures between Civilization and Islam.<<< Exactly. Speaking of which, I hope all of you are flying your American flag this morning. If you don't have run, pick one up this afternoon. <H>

To: limtex who wrote (104413)	9/12/2001 11:22:55 AM
From: Robin Plunder	Respond to of 152472

Yes, Limtex...'the clash between civilization and Islam' It is interesting that what they seek is destruction of material prosperity. Their 'values' are focussed on forcing an environment in which the tenets of Islam are respected, and focussed on 'life' in a supernatural world rather than this one. It is such a contrast to think of the founding fathers of America, who were focussed on establishing the political conditions necessary for allowing people to achieve a happy and prosperous life in this world. Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Patrick Henry, wanted to implement respect for the individual rights of life, liberty and property. We hear no mention of such things from anywhere in the Mideast. They only speak about how our culture is perceived by them to be evil, and how they must, therefore, destroy our culture. They are not seeking to create values in this world, they are seeking to destroy values in this world. Robin

To: limtex who wrote (104413)	9/12/2001 11:59:27 AM
From: Clarksterh	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

This disgusts me. Are we to become them? Are you really suggesting internment or some other major lessening of civil rights for US citizens who happen to be Muslims? If so you qualify, without doubt, as an enemy of very civilization you claim to defend. Can you say Joseph McCarthy? Can you say Stalin? Can you say Inquisition? When the IRA scored some major hits against the British, there were crowds in the US that cheered. Does the entire US deserve to be painted with that brush? If a country harbors Bin Laden (assuming it was him) or if the government gave them money, then great. No options should be off the table. But condemning an entire religion is way way beyond the pale.

To: limtex who wrote (104413)	9/12/2001 12:05:56 PM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Respond to of 152472

Most Arab countries have been censoring scenes of celebration as best they can. I saw that Arafat confiscated most cassettes of such parades in the occupied territories, but enough has leaked out to get a general idea. Samuel Huntington has long been a proponent of this shock of civilizations. He seems like a bit of a bunker dweller (I don't think his isolationism is tenable in today's world for one thing), but he has some points. Here's an enlightening site for you golshan.com There are some savory verses in there, really in phase with modern times... 004.056 YUSUFALI: Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. PICKTHAL: Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise. SHAKIR: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.