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To: Ilaine who wrote (121480)	9/13/2001 8:36:14 AM
From: KyrosL	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

CB, I think you are wrong. Clinton came very close to getting a solution. If he had the ability to add a substantial monetary and security package to this, he would have pulled it off. The key Palestinian demand was the right of return of the Palestinians displaced from Israeli soil during the Arab-Israeli wars, and the Israeli settlements on the West Bank. Both can be solved with money and security guarantees from the US.

To: Ilaine who wrote (121480)	9/13/2001 8:54:52 AM
From: Moominoid	Respond to of 436258

Most Israelis are secular. I haven't heard about this Isaiah bit. There are about three levels at least in this conflict. 1. Hatred of the West in general since the crusades and even more so if they promote "secularism". Israel is a local manifestation of the West at this level. 2. Dispute over land and homeland in Israel. We are called Yehudim - Judeans (which has become Jew in English - German Jüde is closer to the original. I've heard said that the Palestinians stayed on the land and changed their religion and language and we kept the religion and language etc but lost the land and now came back (though only during the crusades were there no Jews in Judea). Not som mcuh a dispute about religion but nationality and land. 3. Dispute over such issues as the Temple Mount. I'd put that down the bottom of the list as only a minority of Israelis want to hold it and even smaller plan on building a temple any time soon and it is in Muslim hands currently. David

To: Ilaine who wrote (121480)	9/13/2001 8:56:16 AM
From: Moominoid	Respond to of 436258

Most Israelis are secular. I haven't heard about this Isaiah bit. There are about three levels at least in this conflict. 1. Hatred of the West in general since the crusades and even more so if they promote "secularism". Israel is a local manifestation of the West at this level. 2. Dispute over land and homeland in Israel. We are called Yehudim - Judeans (which has become Jew in English - German Jüde is closer to the original. I've heard said that the Palestinians stayed on the land and changed their religion and language and we kept the religion and language etc but lost the land and now came back (though only during the crusades were there no Jews in Judea). Not so much a dispute about religion but nationality and land. 3. Dispute over such issues as the Temple Mount. I'd put that down the bottom of the list as only a minority of Israelis want to hold it and even smaller plan on building a temple any time soon and it is in Muslim hands currently. This isn't a popular view among most American Jews on the whole but I view the Jews as a people who happen to have a national religion, just like the Greeks with the greek language and Greek Orthodox Church. David

To: Ilaine who wrote (121480)	9/13/2001 1:08:11 PM
From: Mark Adams	Respond to of 436258

It seems quite obvious, that God/Allah/Yahweh has set up an incredible learning opportunity for both groups. Once they truly understand the message within their religious texts, they will embrace one another as brother and sister. Then the temple can be built, enabling the outcome they desire. Another perspective; there is a SF triology, the Sword and the Lamb, which quite clearly shows how religion can be an essential part of managing large social structures. amazon.com A memetic virus- anyone reading and understanding the series would likely be able to avoid potential manipulation based in religious interpretation of sacred texts. memecentral.com The stories we tell via mass media can do more to shape the future than we realize as a society.