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To: Doppler who wrote (6629)9/13/2001 2:19:28 PM
From: Jorj X Mckie  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 10077
 
dop, that is a great article.



To: Doppler who wrote (6629)9/13/2001 3:00:50 PM
From: SmoothSail  Respond to of 10077
 
Dop that was an excellent article

There was a little boy that was interviewed on TV. He was crying and asking "Why do these people hate us so much?"

I think it's important for all Americans to understand how the rest of the world views us.

We pounded both Iraq and Iran for months in an effort to bring their leaders to their knees - without success. It only stiffened the resolve of their people - much the same way that America is reacting right now.

During that time, do we imagine that there wasn't some collateral damage where innocent men, women and children were affected? Do we have any least notion of how many people were killed? Then we cut them off from the rest of the world denying them things like medicine for their children and preventing them from conducting their lives in a normal manner.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm in no way justifying what these cowards did. But our policies in some countries have caused great suffering to the people of those countries. It might help explain their hatred of us and their motivation.

I sincerely hope and pray that the talk of World War III does not become a reality.

The hope that the countries we consider rogue nations, that harbor and support terrorism, will condemn these heinous acts by giving up the perpetrators could become a reality. Everyone of those countries, with the exception of Iraq, has expressed some sort of regret to Bush.

I was watching a program from the BBC last night, one American ex-pat remarked "Looks like America has finally been dragged into the real world. Most countries live with terrorism on a daily basis. Here in London, it's business as usual with the IRA planting bombs every week. And it's been going on for years."

I don't know what the solution to this is but I don't think bombing another country or killing more people is the answer. We live with the possibility of, a real possibility of, things getting out of control and escalating to the point that way too many people are going to die.

We need the support of all the countries that we've been enemies with in the past - in particular Iran. Look at the map. There is no way that we could even approach Afghanistan without the support of neighboring countries. And we don't even know if Afghanistan is behind it for sure. We made the mistake in Korea (with China against us) and again in Vietnam (with China and 1-1/2 of Vietnam against us). We have limited resources that understand the territory and terrain, the people, the languages and the customs. It is going to take something different to solve this problem.

Think about what our bombs and missiles accomplished in all the countries we've gone after. Libya, when we went after Kaddafi - he's still around. Saddam? he's still around. Afghanistan after the African embassy attack? The Taliban is even more powerful. How about Somalia? What did we accomplish there? We watched while they dragged our boys naked through the streets.

God, please help us.



To: Doppler who wrote (6629)9/13/2001 8:55:09 PM
From: arno  Respond to of 10077
 
Excellent!

Posted for posterity....

Make no mistake: This is World War III

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
JERUSALEM
Friday 14 September 2001

As I restlessly lay awake early yesterday, with CNN on my TV and dawn breaking over the holy places of Jerusalem, my ear somehow latched on to a statement made by the US Transportation Secretary, Norman Mineta, about the new precautions that would be put in place at US airports as a result of Tuesday's unspeakable terrorist attacks: There will be no more curbside check-in, he said. I suddenly imagined a group of terrorists somewhere here in the Middle East, sipping coffee, also watching CNN and laughing hysterically: "Hey boss, did you hear that? We just blew up Wall Street and the Pentagon and their response is no more curbside check-in?"

I don't mean to criticise Mineta. He is doing what he can. And I have absolutely no doubt that the Bush team, when it identifies the perpetrators, will make them pay dearly. Yet there was something so absurdly futile and American about the curbside ban that I couldn't help but wonder: Does my country really understand that this is World War III? And if this attack was the Pearl Harbor of World War III, it means there is a long, long war ahead.

And this Third World War does not pit the US against another superpower. It pits America - the world's only superpower and quintessential symbol of liberal, free-market, Western values - against all the super-empowered angry men and women out there.

Many of these super-empowered angry people hail from failing states in the Muslim and Third World. They do not share Western values, they resent America's influence over their lives, politics and children, not to mention America's support for Israel, and they often blame America for the failure of their societies to master modernity.

What makes them super-empowered, though, is their genius at using the networked world, the Internet and the very high technology they hate, to attack the US. Think about it: They turned the West's most advanced civilian planes into human-directed, precision-guided cruise missiles - a diabolical melding of their fanaticism and our technology. Jihad Online.

And think of what they hit: the World Trade Centre - the beacon of American-led capitalism that both tempts and repels them, and the Pentagon, the embodiment of American military superiority.

And think about what places in Israel the Palestinian suicide bombers have targeted most. "They never hit synagogues or settlements or Israeli religious zealots," said the Haaretz newspaper columnist Ari Shavit. "They hit the Sbarro pizza parlor, the Netanya shopping mall. The Dolphinarium disco. They hit the yuppie Israel, not the yeshiva Israel."

So what is required to fight a war against such people in such a world? To start with, Americans will never be able to penetrate such small groups, often based on family ties, who live in places such as Afghanistan, Pakistan or Lebanon's wild Bekaa Valley. The only people who can penetrate these shadowy and ever-mutating groups, and deter them, are their own societies. And even they can't do it consistently. So give the CIA a break.

Israeli officials will tell you that the only time they have had real quiet and real control over the suicide bombers and radical Palestinian groups, such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad, is when Yasser Arafat and his Palestinian Authority tracked them, jailed them or deterred them.

So then the question becomes: What does it take for the US to get the societies that host terrorist groups to truly act against them?

First America has to prove that it is serious, and that it understands that many of these terrorists hate its existence, not just its policies.

In June, I wrote a column about the fact that a few mobile phone threats from Osama bin Laden had prompted President Bush to withdraw the FBI from Yemen, a US Marines contingent from Jordan, and the US Fifth Fleet from its home base in the Persian Gulf. This US retreat was noticed all over the region, but it did not merit a headline in any major US paper. That must have encouraged the terrorists. Forget about American civilians, the US didn't even want to risk its soldiers to face their threats.

The people who planned Tuesday's bombings combined world-class evil with world-class genius to devastating effect. And unless the US is ready to put its best minds to work combating them - the World War III Manhattan project - in an equally daring, unconventional and unremitting fashion, the world is in trouble. Because while this may have been the first major battle of World War III, it may be the last one that involves only conventional, non-nuclear weapons.

Second, America has been allowing a double game to go on with its Middle East allies for years, and that has to stop. A country such as Syria has to decide: Does it want a Hezbollah embassy in Damascus or an American one? If it wants a US embassy, then it cannot play host to a rogue's gallery of terrorist groups.

Does that mean the US must ignore Palestinian concerns and Muslim economic grievances? No. Many in this part of the world crave the best of America, and America cannot forget that it is their ray of hope. But apropos of the Palestinians, the US put on the table at Camp David a plan that would have given Yasser Arafat much of what he now claims to be fighting for. That US plan may not be sufficient for Palestinians, but to say that the justifiable response to it is suicide terrorism is utterly sick.

Third, the US needs to have a serious and respectful dialogue with the Muslim world and its political leaders about why many of its people are falling behind. The fact is, no region in the world, including sub-Saharan Africa, has fewer freely elected governments than the Arab-Muslim world, which has none. Why? Egypt went through a whole period of self-criticism after the 1967 war, which produced a stronger country. Why is such self-criticism not tolerated today by any Arab leader?

Where are the Muslim leaders who will tell their sons to resist the Israelis - but not to kill themselves or innocent non-combatants? No matter how bad, your life is sacred. Surely Islam, a grand religion that never perpetrated the sort of Holocaust against the Jews in its midst that Europe did, is being distorted when it is treated as a guidebook for suicide bombing. How is it that not a single Muslim leader will say that?

These are some of the issues the US will have to address as it fights World War III. It will be a long war against a brilliant and motivated foe. When I remarked to an Israeli military official what an amazing technological feat it was for the terrorists to hijack the planes and then fly them directly into the most vulnerable spot in each building, he pooh-poohed me.

"It's not that difficult to learn how to fly a plane once it's up in the air," he said. "And remember, they never had to learn how to land."

No, they didn't. They only had to destroy. America, by contrast, has to fight in a way that is effective without destroying the very open society it is trying to protect. It has to fight hard and land safely. It has to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules, and preserve its open society as if there were no terrorists. It won't be easy. It will require America's best strategists, most creative diplomats and bravest soldiers.

Two-time Pulitizer Prize-winner Thomas L. Friedman is the author of From Beirut to Jerusalem, and the foreign affairs columnist for The New York Times, where this article first appeared.