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To: Sam Citron who wrote (52159)	9/15/2001 12:27:07 AM
From: Dale Knipschield	Respond to of 70976

Sam, A wonderful concept, and one which could lend hope for an eventual dialogue rather than a war.......how could we lend support to something like this? The radicals will never buy into this, but perhaps that wouldn't be necessary if moderate leaders in these nations would participate and take up the cause. Knip

To: Sam Citron who wrote (52159)	9/15/2001 2:11:27 AM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 70976

re: Why can't we lend our expertise and understanding and historical perspective instead of letting the inevitable conflict escalate into unfathomable violence? Any attempt to do that, would be seen as further interference in their internal affairs. They are deeply resentfull of any attempt by us to "lend our expertise". We can only lead by example, and let them eventually come around to the idea of equality for men and women, and equality for all races, and religous tolerance, and the rule of law. We can't educate them, we can't instruct them, we can't teach them. In this debate, there seems to be an undercurrent of "blaming the victim". That is, we have turned this discussion around, and gotten confused about who the victims are, and who the attacker is. The victims are in New York and Washington. The countries who should pay reparations, are the nations who harboured the terrorist organizations. Unfortunately, they are all desperately poor, so they can only pay with their lives. There has been much discussion here, about how the U.S. has made these countries poor, and how the CIA forced bad governments on them, and given them weapons, and so on. There is just enough truth in all this, to make it seem plausible. To blame the victim. Well, I think that Afghanistan is desperately poor, because they have an obsolete social system. The literacy rate for women is 14% there, and that % is dropping, because the government doesn't believe in public education for women. I think that Sudan is desperately poor, because the government and army spend all available money, to fight a war of genocide against the Christian tribes in the south of Sudan. Oh, they also practice female genital mutilation there, so I guess their social system is not quite in the 21st Century yet. I think that Egypt is desperately poor, because the government and army act as parasites on the general society. A government or army job, there, is a license to steal. That was true when they were a Soviet client state, and is still true now that they are our client state. And so on. Now, I'm sure someone can come up with some intricate, carefully reasoned explanation for why this is all the fault of the CIA and Exxon. Someone has probably written a book about it.

To: Sam Citron who wrote (52159)	9/15/2001 11:17:46 AM
From: Zeev Hed	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

I believe that all religions undergo metamorphosis in time and the holy scriptures, whether these are the bible, the Quran or the new testament are broad enough to provide for a "living" interpretation, not much different than the US constitution. In time, the youngest of the monotheistic religion will transform as well and provide for the "faithful" to acknowledge that they all pray to the same god (and some will say, no god), and forced conversion (or for that mater, seductive conversion) will no longer be an acceptable tenet of any religion. More importantly, however, the wide gap in standard of living between "consumer societies" and "subsitence societies" will have to be filled. That is a lengthy process, but it will eventually be completed. There is a temporal destabilizing factor due to the rapid development of communication and media means, making the economic gap so visible and thus instilling great resentment and envy which is exploited (as it has been times and again in human history) by extreme elements. This gap is by no means a justification for any act of violence, certainly not against the US that has been generous time and time again in efforts to bridge the economic gap. Zeev