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Pastimes : The New Qualcomm - write what you like thread. -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Uncle Frank who wrote (3475)	9/17/2001 2:31:25 PM
From: John Hayman	Respond to of 12231

WTC search yields wireless signals By Reuters September 15, 2001, 7:05 p.m. PT Technicians have confirmed that dozens of wireless signals have originated from the wreckage of the World Trade Center since Tuesday's attack as they deploy technologies in hopes of finding survivors, officials said Saturday. "We do have 50-plus open cases where we have had signals detected at ground zero since the attack," said Kark Rauscher, who is heading up a coalition of wireless companies helping look for survivors. "We realize that we may be the only hope that some people have, so we're going to do everything we can," said Rauscher, Lucent Technologies' director of system reliability. In one case, two people apparently trapped together in the wreckage have placed separate calls, possibly with separate phones, although they have not been heard from for at least the past day, he said. The ad-hoc "wireless emergency response team," composed of technicians from some of the major telecommunications companies, has begun searching for activity on about 2,000 wireless phone numbers of people believed trapped in the wreckage. Although an active signal from a wireless device would not indicate that its owner has survived the attack, it could help rescue crews focus on air pockets and basement areas of the rubble where people may be huddled awaiting rescue, a Federal Emergency Management Administration spokesman said. As wreckage is cleared away, the team hopes its "radio frequency sniffers" will be able to pick up signals blocked by the tons of concrete and steel. Wireless numbers for people missing after Tuesday's attack can be provided to BellSouth operators at (877) 348-8579. The numbers were being passed along to rescue teams in New York. Story Copyright © 2001 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.

To: Uncle Frank who wrote (3475)	9/17/2001 9:35:48 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Respond to of 12231

UF, you are right that they actually only confronted the passengers on a plane. Which is not really taking on the whole of the USA simultaneously with box-cutters [a word to live in infamy evermore I would say]. But in a way they were. I would not want to try to take over a plane full of frightened and desperate passengers - there will always be half a dozen very aggressive males to deal with, carrying bottles of whiskey in their carry-one luggage or other little things [such as pocket knives]. As those on the plane with the New Zealander found out, things can go badly [those who know him are certain that Alan Beaven would have been in the forefront of confronting the attackers]. I'm quite pleased with the idea that a Kiwi might have had a major hand in preventing the last plane from destroying something else [though I suppose the F16 would have stopped them if the passengers hadn't]. I was really just making the point that rule number one in a conflict is to not underestimate the enemy. To be accurate. To not fool oneself. To know exactly what one is dealing with. My point was starting off thinking these people are: Mindless Cowards Faceless Sub human etc, etc is not strictly a good idea. Yes, they are mindless in that they are operating broadly on dogma handed down via Islamic edicts by Mullahs and so on. But they are operating in their local realm as cunningly as they can [which isn't all that cunning actually, as far as the actual attackers are concerned, when we read about their behaviour leading up to their attacks - but these were just those carrying out the actual attacks]. The definition of a coward is one who in the face of fear, cowers from the necessary actions which will probably lead to their own death, damage or other loss although they should really carry out their actions to meet their goals. I don't think it's reasonable to call Bin Laden or the attackers cowards. It's also not a good idea. Because when confronted, they will not cower - they will die trying to attack USA and other soldiers trying to overpower them. The history of these individuals is spread across Afghanistan since the Russians invaded. We can't really say they are faceless either. Bin Laden number 37 or whatever he is, is one of the most well known faces on earth and quite pleased about it! Hiding in caves is not far off what the USA leadership did during the attack. Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice and company sensibly, got into the bunkers. That doesn't make them cowards. Of course Bin Laden and co will hide in caves. But I don't think it would be accurate to say they are cowering in their caves. <He hides in caves, and uses twisted religious ideology and bribery to convince others to sacrifice their lives to further his personal agenda of hatred.> We need to be careful we cannot be accused of doing the same if we want to consider ourselves superior. Already I have read in SI some religious mania with mystical lines around Islam. As you say, our freedom isn't perfect, but I agree it is worlds away from the medieval religious cruelty and sacrifice of individuals to the religious Mullah rulers. I would like to see our freedoms increased dramatically. On a scale of 1 to 100, we are only around 20. Islam and Jerry Falwell operate at about level 5. Bin Laden and Saddam operate at about level 1, in company with Stalin, Hitler, Mao and a lot more besides. I personally think there is an elegant solution. United Nations reconstitution and possession of Afghanistan [and East Timor, Iraq, Kuwait, Palestine/Israel] as a self-governing protectorate. That would take some political will among many nations and the USA has not been willing to allow much autonomy to the UN. I think the local man in the street in Kabul would be very keen on the idea. They could be as Sunni, Shitey, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist or atheist as they like. Nearly all humans just want to have a nice life, enjoy their family, friends, work and play, try to figure out what it's all about and die happy. Meanwhile, in dealing with the enemy, let's not kid ourselves about just what we are dealing with. The Mullahs are not mindless. They are cruel. They want all else subsumed to their will. They are not cowards. They aren't faceless. They will use all means to bring all people under their control. It's an age old story. It has been done by alpha males since Pharoahs and before. The tribe is all and the individual nothing; a mere sheep in a flock to be fleeced and sacrificed. I say there's been enough of that. Mqurice