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To: smolejv@gmx.net who wrote (9666)	9/17/2001 5:52:29 PM
From: jim black	Respond to of 74559

DJ, I am old enough to remember the follies of the Viet Nam debacle. I have many friends who are Jews and am almost ashamed to admit that I have chided them about how the Israelis treat the Palestinians. And I now believe more than ever those injustices should be addressed with both sides called to the table, give and take. But to my simple mind what we now face whether we know it or not is several orders of magnitude more dangerous. And my suggestions, dreadful in the extreme to many, have nothing to do with MAD policies, i.e., Russia, China and The USA hurling annihilation upon one another. What I suggested was an ultimatum, which is by my definition only what you do when you have the means to back it up and the other guy doesn't. Religious fanaticism is a disease of the species, and according to Tom Hartlley? of CBS yesterday bin-Laden had purchased but perhaps not taken delivery of weapons grade uranium. I fully believe it is not if, but when such measures will be used against us in the USA, or perhaps you in Muenchen, or my family in Seattle's harbor, or Jay in Hong Kong. Or it may be anthrax, or one of a thousand shocks that flesh is heir to. In all due respect my worldly fellow European threadster, in the words of the market mavens, I do believe it IS different this time. If you are not for Allah...you be one dead infidel. I am not prone or eager or willing or inclined to wait for sanity to prevail. It is not B-52's and not US or UN troops sent to die on the ground. It is a solution from the air. Do you really in your heart of hearts believe Saddam or bin-Laden would not now do such a thing, would but they could, to us...now? I do. I see nothing that gives any evidence to their changing their minds or converting to love and flower children before they get the nukes or the delivery capability for botulinum or somesuch. In my opinion I am just ahead of the curve. When Seattle, or Munich, or Chicago happens, in millions and not thousands, it will be with no joy that I know I got to this place first. Sorry friend, that's the way I see it, but then don't worry. I am not in charge. Sleep well tonight in your beautiful surroundings. You are safe. It cannot happen to you. It cannot happen to anyone else. Anyone who says that love and kindness will win out must be right. I am sure you are right. Oh, and here in the sticks of North State California I often go out to look for comets after midnight, usually barefoot on the cool grass. I have to walk by the central air conditioner on the way. Last week I had to shovel a 3 1/2 rattlesnake right at that air conditioner. One might say with great accuracy he just does what rattlesnakes do. He would have done what he does to me. I am glad I got him first. Trouble is, it's not just about rattlesnakes, or the WTC or the Cole. It is about Western Civilization, which I prefer to living under Saddam or the House of Saud or a world governed by the Catholic Pope for that matter. Jim Black

To: smolejv@gmx.net who wrote (9666)	9/17/2001 6:52:30 PM
From: Mark Adams	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

The whole point of exile, is to find a resolution more humane than 'nuke em all n let god sort them out'. Maybe exile isn't the best choice. Yet I doubt counseling will allow a person raised into a terrorist mindset to accept and participate in society as we know it. We have tested the carpet bomb approach to removing whole societies based on religious ideology, and declared it inhumane and even in times of war, subject to war crimes trial. This does not hold true for the zealots- who publicly advocate that all civilians are as guilty as the government which represents them. At least we can openly discuss these issues. And we know any conclusion we reach individually or as a group will likely bear little influence on the ultimate outcome. Which could mark a new dark age. After all, the zealots will not rest until most of the free world resembles the shambles of Srebenica.