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To: Joseph Beltran who wrote (123281)	9/18/2001 1:09:49 PM
From: marginmike	Respond to of 436258

I agree I flew as rarly as possible even before this happened.

To: Joseph Beltran who wrote (123281)	9/18/2001 1:15:49 PM
From: James C. Mc Gowan	Respond to of 436258

AIRLINE SAFETY/GROUND SAFETY Warning: lengthy rant, maybe some ideas to push on your congress/senate representatives Message 16372821 To those of you that must fly now, please tell your carriers you DO NOT BELIEVE safety is less important that commerce. James

To: Joseph Beltran who wrote (123281)	9/18/2001 1:16:26 PM
From: Haim R. Branisteanu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

JB, the safety in airplanes is higher than on roads. Much more people die in car accidents than on airlines. During recent years there were also some severe rail road accidents I have not tallied the numbers which is greater, but I would not stop flying but to the contrary fly even more to defeat the intend of those trying to disturb our way of life. For sure the government can make matter worse not better. They had all the warnings and chose to ignored them. Some where I read that Silicon Valley is gathering $1 billion for the assassination of bin Laden ........ wonder where their reason is beyond revenge ........... and aside what will they achieve ?? ....... would it not be more beneficial to introduce fingerprints and retina identification for those who want to get quicker on the planes?? Wisdom is a commodity hard to find Haim

To: Joseph Beltran who wrote (123281)	9/19/2001 3:44:27 AM
From: C	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

I realize that you are most likely talking out of anger and emotion, but I couldn't disagree more with your post. The new and rushed airline security measures that are in place today, along with the proposals you made would most likely not have saved the lives of those on board those four flights last week.....and perhaps not those on the ground either. Airport security checkpoints are in place to prevent obvious weapons such as bombs, guns, and metal knives from getting on board. But where do we draw the line. What about scissors, corkscrews, manicure files, disposable razors, and 100's of other items, such as pens, pencils, belts, shoelaces,thick metal necklaces, and on and on and on. Heck, even batteries from a electronic device can be placed inside a sock to create a weapon. Just ask any prison guard what inmates can fashion into useful weapons. Any one of these items could have been used successfully by the monsters that carried out their act of terror last week. Look at the weapons that are believed to have been used. The box cutters were probably in a small carry on bag and the knives were probably made of a hard plastic and taped to a leg.....which wouldn't set off any metal detector alarm. The terrorists did dry runs on flights weeks before the actual act. If the items they used would have been discovered, or not allowed on the dry runs, they just would have used something else when it came time for the real thing. Now lets look at the four proposals you made...... 1) marshalls on each domestic flight One marshal wouldn't stand a chance. What can he do, shoot anyone who walks near him? Four or five people with a plan can overtake the marshal. They may lose one or even two people (that would be accounted for in their plan) but in the end they would end up with the gun in their control. The bad guys can also take a little old lady or a child and use them as a shield to move forward toward the marshal. What would the marshal do then? What about two marshals? Well, then I suppose the bad guys would just use more people. In the end they would end up with two guns in their control. What about arming the marshal with a machine gun? Just think of all the potential problems that would raise. No matter what, bullets are flying and the passengers are anything but safe. A better idea just might be to issue every passenger a loaded gun as they board. That way the good guys would be assured of having more weapons than the bad guys. 2) a door to the cockpit which actually works This one has a chance of working....but it would not protect the passengers. Making the cockpit door unable to be penetrated could prevent the plane from going into the hands of the bad guys and thus the plane itself could not be used as a weapon. But how would this protect the passengers? Once past the marshals, and now with a gun, the bad guys would demand the pilots open the door. If the pilots refused, the bad guys could threaten to cause harm to one passenger or crew member every minute until the door is opened. The pilots could continue to refuse to open the door, the terrorists don't get control of the plane, but everyone on board is doomed. 3) armed pilots Assuming you mean armed with a gun. Where do they keep it? Under the seat? In a holster? If they are rushed it isn't going to do any good in those places. If the cockpit door is secure, they probably aren't going to be allowed to come out of the cockpit anyway. And if they do.....see # 1 above. 4) a complete re-vamping of the check in process which includes going through each bag which is carried aboard and screening of each passenger through a database of FBI/CIA/INTERPOL terrorist suspects. Going through each bag won't help at all. Sure, that would weed out box cutters and heavy plastic knives, but what about all the other previously mentioned items? And of course there is the oldest trick in the book....the false compartment. What about non-detectable items that are secured to the body. Do we do a full strip and cavity search of all passengers? The screening process sounds good at first but it can't fully work. First off we would have to know who we are looking for and have a full list of all known terrorists at all checkpoints. We do not know all terrorists and the terrorists wouldn't bother to send someone who may be on such a list. Plus they can and would use disguises and false ID's. Non of these ideas is going to prevent a terrorist who is intent on causing havoc from causing it. Especially if they don't care if they die in the process. We can do things that "could" prevent an airliner from being used as weapon, but these things would do nothing to protect the passenger. Should we arm bus drivers, shuttle operators, and all others in control of mass transit devices. What about arming all motorists in an attempt to stop car jackings. Look at all the security now at large office buildings and ballparks. Do we really think this will prevent a group of terrorists from causing great harm if they are intent on causing it. I will leave it to your own imagination to think of all the ways some monster who wants to die could cause mayhem to a ballpark with 80,000 people in it. Any of the new and coming security measures are just going to keep the honest, and the sane, honest. I have family members and friends who have flown this week, and they do not deserve anything bad to happen to them as you suggest. Like most Americans I have thought long and hard about these issues during the past week. Any knee-jerk security measures are just "reactions" and not "actions" to stop these madmen. We must rid ourselves of this burden to humanity through actions. Not put a band-aid on the problem.