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To: fingolfen who wrote (143708)	9/20/2001 11:21:04 PM
From: Joe NYC	Respond to of 186894

Fin, I think you're missing something here. The U.S. army never did drive the Germans out of Italy in WW2. We partially did, but it was very costly, a lot of lives were lost in Central Italy. The General seems to disagree with you as well. Attacking Afghanistan conventionally will accomplish exactly one thing: diminish world support for the U.S.'s fight against terrorism. This war is going to need to be strictly black ops and support of the Northern Alliance as far as any action in Afghanistan proper. It is a dilemma. I think the options you outlined are not enough to defeat Taliban and to overthrow that government. When I read the articles about situation in Afganistan (prior to WTC tragedy), I was greatly saddened by every article, not only because the the horrible acts of Taliban against their population continued unabated, but also, because there seemed to be no hope for improvement. The terrorist attacks against WTC in a way presented an opportunity to overthrow Taliban in process of going after bin Laden. But the options being presented will not do it. Northern Alliance is too week. The internal opposition in Taliban controlled areas has been greatly suppressed. I don't see any way of toppling this government other driving into capital and the city where Taliban operates from with HumVees and tanks. I think there is a need to make one terrorist supporting government an example to the rest of the world, and Taliban government in Afganistan would make the best example. From listening to Bush speech and some articles, it seems that you are right, the direction doesn't seem to be the ground offensive. I just don't see toppling of Taliban government at the end of this sort of strategy. I hope I am wrong, and I hope that the excellent team Bush put together will come up with strategy that will deal with both Taliban and bin Laden somehow. Joe

To: fingolfen who wrote (143708)	9/21/2001 12:37:11 AM
From: Joe NYC	Respond to of 186894

Encouraging article regarding Taliban from The Guardian (I guess it's the british paper) via DrudgeReport: drudgereport.com PAPER: U.S. PLANS TO OVERTHROW TALIBAN REGIME, PUT AFGHANISTAN UNDER U.N. CONTROL THE GUARDIAN SEPT 21, 2001 The US government is pressing its European allies to agree to a military campaign to topple the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and replace it with an interim administration under United Nations auspices. Diplomatic cables from the Washington embassy of a key Nato ally, seen by the Guardian, report that the US is keen to hear allied views on "post-Taliban Afghanistan after the liberation of the country". The embassy cable reveals that the US administration is bent on force to evict the Taliban from power because of the shelter it has offered Osama bin Laden, named by the White House as prime suspect for the New York and Washington atrocities on September 11. The Guardian has also learned that two large US Hercules transport aircraft landed in [DRUDGE HAS REDACTED PORTIONS OF THIS STORY OUT OF RESPECT FOR AMERICAN TROOPS AND THEIR FAMILIES]... Such a build-up would incur the wrath of Russia which views the central Asian republics as its backyard. The Pentagon yesterday continued its move to a war footing, with orders for up to 130 heavy bombers, fighters, aerial refuelling planes and other combat aircraft to be deployed around the Middle East and Central Asia region. Two B-52 bombers yesterday left Barksdale airbase in Louisiana, joining F-15E fighter-bombers, F-16 fighters, B-1 long range bombers and E-3 Awacs airborne command-and-control aircraft that left on Wednesday. The navy has also sent an additional aircraft carrier toward the Middle East region,which along with the air deployment could place up to 500 US warplanes in the Mediterranean, Gulf and Indian Ocean areas. Tony Blair, in Washington last night to meet Mr Bush, suggested military strikes inside Afghanistan, targeted on Bin Laden's training camps, could come in a matter of days. "These people, if they could, would get access to chemical, biological and nuclear capability. We have no option but to act," he said. The US strategy to depose the Taliban regime is based on more than military thinking. A further plank appears to entail supporting the campaign of the exiled 86-year-old monarch of Afghanistan, King Zahir Shah, to return to power by encouraging the guerrilla army of the Northern Alliance opposition to fall in behind him. Diplomatic documents seen by the Guardian show that Washington is funding and organising the travel of several Northern Alliance figures to Rome to confer with the exiled monarch who is expected to call for a revolution. "The king plans to call on all the Afghan tribes to rise up against the Taliban," the diplomatic cable reported yesterday, citing the advice of the US administration. US plans to overthrow the Taliban regime were revealed when a senior European politician in Washington this week was told by the US administration that it wanted to hear his country's views on how Afghanistan should be run after the Taliban were defeated and that "closer consultations" were necessary. The Americans also spoke of a role for the UN in the new "interim administration" for Afghanistan and for the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe in central Asia, without mentioning Nato. Washington is routinely sceptical of the UN and OSCE, but the key role was seen as an attempt to build as broad a coalition as possible behind the imminent campaign. The Europeans, Russia, and even China might be swayed by the unusual US inclusiveness, diplomats said. "It's a major change of US policy," said one. The spying mission in [DRUDGE HAS REDACTED PORTIONS OF THIS STORY OUT OF RESPECT FOR AMERICAN TROOPS AND THEIR FAMILIES]... is also fraught with political risk. The two Hercules could not fly over Iran, but Turkmenistan, the third ex-Soviet state bordering Afghanistan granted permission. However, diplomats said the Turkmens were less keen to grant overflying rights to US fighter aircraft heading for the Afghan border. END <edit>I wonder if he is talking about Uzbekistan