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To: David Semoreson who wrote (123408)	9/18/2001 7:35:45 PM
From: Skeeter Bug	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

david, the purpose of the analogy wasn't to be the perfect analogy. it was just to point out that 1. if someone took control of something away from a reasonable person/nation it is reasonable for them to be upset... 2. the UN is not the be all, end all arbiter of everything. the US gives them the bird all the time. the only difference is the SIZE of the military. at least a few jews had been lobbying for an israel state since 1917 per the other link. they finally got it and kept it through UN support and force. imho, divying up the land may have actually worked, however, the folks who had their right to the land taken away against their wishes didn't receive much, if anything, in compensation. the arab leadership was STUPID to start fighting the jews. STUPID. i'm afraid you are right about the many arabs not wanting jews around given the mid to late 20th century history. however, that is a hypothetical b/c israel isn't going anywhere. >>nobody says that!<< a few said what ammounts to such to me which inspired this discussion. >>this generation finds itself in this position so how do we resolve the problem?<< i wish i knew. perhaps the UN could set up some economic development projects and help bring jobs to keep the public productive. maybe that would be a start. perhaps some UN teams could start building homes for the displaced folks and give them a vested interest in what they currently have. >>IMO the arabs have the right to be angry, but the jews have the right to continued existence.<< i agree with you and i think this view is reasonable given the history. >>there will only be peace in the middle east when the arabs love their children more than they hate the jews.<< they do, david. except for some very extremist people who get all the publicity. otherwise, there would be a LOT more than 100 jews dying each year at the hands of the palestinians (100 - or 1 - is too much as is, but if the majority of palestinians sent their kids bombing places the results w/b a lot worse. thankfully, they don't). 300 morons dance in the street and it is on every news channel. 1000 jordanians send theor condolences to the US and their is no footage. it leads to skewed perceptions. >>(think about that for a moment, and compare to Western values)<< like enslaving children when the US was fighting for position? or exterminating native american children when getting land was important? i feel very comfortable with current western values (given the hoorible values of many cultures!) given our current circumstance. i do not believe we are above getting very low and nasty if the CIRCUMSTANCES dictate it. our history bares this out. >>your position of support for their grievance is what encourages them to back away from the generous peace terms last offered.<< i disagree. basically, you are saying that everyone must disregard what are legitimate grievances or else they are responsible for the lack of peace. do you really believe that? it sure sounds like "my way or the highway." >>yes Isreal supports the idea of two states. the jews were, and I believe still are, prepared to accept peace with defensible borders. the arabs were, and I believe still are, only prepared to accept the entire region jew-free.<< the bad blood is going to be difficult to resolve. we need leaders on both sides willing to give in to the other in a fair way. "ok, you took the land and we're not happy, but we can move on and get along." "ok, we understand how you might be angry, however, let's work together to build up business and homes in the palestinian areas for palestinian peoples." hey, maybe we can be surprised, however unlikely. everyone is so focused on self interest that they don't get the big picture. imho, this kind of focus on self interest will be mankind's ruin at some point.

To: David Semoreson who wrote (123408)	9/18/2001 9:04:40 PM
From: Skeeter Bug	Respond to of 436258

david, fwi, i just got news that a former co-worker and football buddy had a very close first cousin ("closer than my brother") who just started at cantor fitzgerald 1 month ago. he hasn't been heard from since the nuts crashed into the wtc buildings. needless to say, his wife and 2 sons are quite concerned. he was jordanian.