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To: lorne who wrote (76876)9/18/2001 6:39:42 PM
From: kirby49  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 116752
 
lorne:

<People come here because our countries are FREE and their's are not.
One of the big problems will be trying to figure out which of the peoples that come here are really here for the freedom's we enjoy.

This is important and one of the reason's for the delay at the moment. I am amazed at Bush's restraint and which directions he has gone and in which order he has taken to neutralize the situation diplomatically, as he gets this job done to find out the people here who are not here for freedom. It is important for us to not attack the mosques here and get learning that Sikhs and Muslims both wear turbins and have mosques, but Sikhs are not Muslim. This is not entirely our own responsiblity however. Many feel that they just all show up and when they get here they stick to their own communities. This is true of all immigrants when they start arriving and I was astounded to find out that Toronto had more Italians than anywhere else in the world except Rome as there are no other cities in Italy with more than 500,000. Unless you're as forward as I am (cause I ask,there's no dishonour in asking) many feel threatened and to those that are it's like trying to figure out which are former Presbyterians and Methodists in the United Church of Canada and why there are still also Presbyterian churches and Methodist churches.

I am angry, and have always known within myself that I would fight to my death for my family and country unlike that poster you replied to. How about this for a solution to our problems. First, it's the Taliban's move and I understand they have all gone to some community in the mountains how far from Kabul I do not know, but there must only be widows and young children left. I believe many Afghans are not muslims and from listening to the UN ambasador today the old president is in the NE section of the country but I don't think that will help. Could we at least drop food and clean water for them, bandages etc? I know our own suffraget movement wasn't that long ago in total history, but religious fundamentalism shouldn't enslave these women and any people who can be freed will only help the cause of freedom. We have resolve some issues over time, no, as muslim men go bearheaded and Sikh's do not, and serve proudly in the RCMP, but I don't believe they take their Skarbi's(sp? daggers worn in knee high socks like Boy Scouts) to school. I have heard Muslim women who are at least allowed to speak to say they keep covered as they are the pearls of Islam. Well Adam and Eve, or Darwins first, either way they still had no clothes and the sight of the birth of my children tell me this is not necessary, just a putdown. Thirty years ago there was a wave of immigrants from Pakistan and I don't know what event sent them here, but they have stayed and many have prospered. Since they left the fundamentalists have gained more control and the young boys are brainwashed to become martyrs. Are there muslims of good faith who understand that men and women are equal (I've always thought women superior cause they can do all the sames things plus that big one more!), who have lived in North America for some time and are willing to go back and make things right after all this. If there were enough of them and muslim leaders here to get it together perhaps we could put centuries of strife behind us. Probably too simplistic and we would need other symbols of good faith such as the Christian Fundamentalists apologizing for their words this week, or Jews allowing their women to weep at the wailing wall.

Shouldn't have started this, as was feeling a little more optomistic today. Once again feeling futile.

Bob



To: lorne who wrote (76876)9/19/2001 8:41:46 AM
From: Little Joe  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 116752
 
I don't usually agree with Rich but he is right to remind us that we should not paint all muslims with the same brush and that it is wrong to attack and/or disparage all muslims most of whom have not perverted their religion so that it means hate and not love.

Little joe



To: lorne who wrote (76876)9/19/2001 9:49:31 AM
From: Richnorth  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 116752
 
September 19, 2001

THE ANGER
Victims of Mistaken Identity, Sikhs Pay a Price for Turbans

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN and TAMAR LEWIN

nytimes.com

Frightened by a wave of violence and harassment, Sikhs across the country are struggling to explain to an uncomprehending public that despite their turbans and beards, they are not followers of the Taliban and not in any way responsible for last week's terror attacks.

Although there are fewer than a half million Sikhs in the United States, they have attracted a disproportionate share of the anger following Tuesday's attacks. On Saturday in Mesa, Ariz., a gunman drove into a Chevron station and shot to death the Sikh owner. The gunman then fired on a Lebanese clerk at a nearby Mobil station and into the home of an Afghan family.

"I'm a patriot," the suspect, Frank S. Roque, said as he was arrested. "I'm a damn American all the way."

Since the attacks, people who look Middle Eastern and South Asian, whatever their religion or nation of origin, have been singled out for harassment, threats and assaults. Mosques have been fired upon. Arab- owned businesses have been burned. A young Indian Catholic and his friend were beaten.

The F.B.I. is also investigating two other shooting deaths as possible hate crimes. In San Gabriel, Calif., Adel Karas, an Egyptian Christian grocer, was killed Saturday at the market he owned. The same day, Waqar Hasan, a Pakistani Muslim, was found shot dead at his store in the Pleasant Grove section of Dallas.

But the nation's Sikhs, conspicuous in turbans that resemble the head wrap of suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden, have suddenly found themselves particularly vulnerable. By yesterday afternoon, more than 200 Sikhs had reported incidents to a Sikh anti-defamation group. Newspapers around the country have reported that Sikh temples in Cleveland and West Sacramento were vandalized and, in San Mateo, Calif., a gasoline bomb was thrown through the window of a Sikh family's home, hitting a 3-year-old on the head, but not exploding.

On Sunday, near Eugene, Ore., a 54-year old California woman was arrested for trying to pull the turban off the head of a Sikh man at a highway rest stop.

"People in our community are just terrified," said Mandeep Dhillon Singh, a lawyer in Menlo Park who is a spokesman for the Sikh Media Watch and Resource Task Force. "We haven't gotten beyond the shock of our own nation being attacked, and now we're being attacked."

On Sunday, in a telephone conversation with President Bush, Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee of India expressed concern about the safety of Sikhs in the United States.

For many Sikhs, fear has disrupted the rhythms of daily life. "I haven't been out much this week," said a Sikh woman in Atlanta, who spoke only on the condition she not be identified. "It's a time to be very cautious. It's not a time to do any unnecessary shopping."

Sikhism, founded in the late 15th century by Hindu-born Guru Nanak, is a monotheistic religion that has grown to become the world's fifth largest after Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism. Sikhs reject the caste system, and to this day Sikh men take the name "Singh" and women, the name "Kaur," to connote the equality of all believers.

A majority of the world's 18 million or so Sikhs live in the Punjab region of northern India, but there are sizable Sikh populations in England, Canada and the United States.

In the wake of the terrorism attacks, some Muslim and Hindus have discussed changing their traditional dress so as not to be conspicuous. But Sikh men say their religion requires them to leave their hair uncut and covered, either by a turban or a small bun called a patka.

Balbir Singh Sodhi came to Mesa to open a gas station. Prosecutors said the only reason for the killing was his turban and his dark skin. At the time of the incident, he was outside the station doing landscaping with four Mexicans, but he was the only one shot.

Lakhwinder Singh, a brother of the victim, said Sikhs in the Mesa area began hearing threats the day of the terror attacks.

"My brother and I and some other Sikhs who owned stores talked about going to the media to try to clarify that we are not Muslims," said Lakhwinder Singh. "We knew there was very little understanding of Sikhs in this country."

Among Sikhs in the United States, there is now intense debate about how to go about distinguishing themselves from Muslims while not implying that attacks on Muslims are justified.

"It would be antithetical to our faith to have materials saying, `We are not Muslims," said Inderpreet Singh, a Sikh in Boston. "It's understandable that people now are worried about being mistaken for Muslims, but we have to be very careful not to do that."

In Chicago, Inderjit Singh, a Sikh taxi driver, yesterday taped a flier about his religion to the partition separating him from the passengers.

The flier describes the history and basic beliefs of Sikhism, and then adds, "Some people have the misconception that Sikhism is an offshoot of Hinduism or the Muslim religion when actually it is a separate religion by itself."

Attackers, however, are making no such distinctions. In San Francisco, Sean Fernandes, a 26-year old Indian Catholic, said he was walking with a white Australian friend early Saturday morning, when a man came up, called him a "dirty Arab," and punched him and the friend. His friend was stabbed in the ensuing brawl and remains hospitalized in critical condition.

"I've lived in this country for eight years, and felt at home here, but this makes me re-evaluate," said Mr. Fernandes, a software engineer. "I'm completely shocked. I've always thought people here were very tolerant, but I guess tough times bring out their true colors."