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To: Selectric II who wrote (46946)	9/20/2001 12:17:43 PM
From: paul_philp	Respond to of 54805

Truce. Personally, I think that this conversation deserves to be on another thread. On the other hand, everyone may want to back down just a bit. I did the other day and I have much more peace of mind now. We are not going to bring anybody to our POV on this subject and god knows we have enough battles in the world today. Thanks, Paul

To: Selectric II who wrote (46946)	9/20/2001 12:20:42 PM
From: ratan lal	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 54805

The US didn't start this no one ever picks fight put of the blue. People dont just wake upone morning and say "lets see which unkown person or entity i can destroy today?" Over the years so many events have taken place that its difficult to say 'who started what". For instance if the original inhabitants (the red indians) had done this, could you say "The US didnt start this"?. And when and how will all this end? Is anyone thinking about it? All I know is that the cycle of violence is never ending phenomenon. For some background on the muslim and mideast conflicts and US involvement, here's a link to an article which barely scratches the surface. independent.co.uk Let me illustrate what I mean. Nineteen years ago today, the greatest act of terrorism – using Israel's own definition of that much misused word – in modern Middle Eastern history began. Does anyone remember the anniversary in the West? How many readers of this article will remember it? I will take a tiny risk and say that no other British newspaper – certainly no American newspaper – will today recall the fact that on 16 September 1982, Israel's Phalangist militia allies started their three-day orgy of rape and knifing and murder in the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila that cost 1,800 lives. It followed an Israeli invasion of Lebanon – designed to drive the PLO out of the country and given the green light by the then US Secretary of State, Alexander Haig – which cost the lives of 17,500 Lebanese and Palestinians, almost all of them civilians. That's probably three times the death toll in the World Trade Centre. Yet I do not remember any vigils or memorial services or candle-lighting in America or the West for the innocent dead of Lebanon; I don't recall any stirring speeches about democracy or liberty. In fact, my memory is that the United States spent most of the bloody months of July and August 1982 calling for "restraint". No, Israel is not to blame for what happened last week. The culprits were Arabs, not Israelis. But America's failure to act with honour in the Middle East, its promiscuous sale of missiles to those who use them against civilians, its blithe disregard for the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqi children under sanctions of which Washington is the principal supporter – all these are intimately related to the society that produced the Arabs who plunged America into an apocalypse of fire last week. America's name is literally stamped on to the missiles fired by Israel into Palestinian buildings in Gaza and the West Bank. Only four weeks ago, I identified one of them as an AGM 114-D air-to-ground rocket made by Boeing and Lockheed-Martin at their factory in – of all places – Florida, the state where some of the suiciders trained to fly. It was fired from an Apache helicopter (made in America, of course) during the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, when hundreds of cluster bombs were dropped in civilian areas of Beruit by the Israelis in contravention of undertakings given to the United States. Most of the bombs had US Naval markings and America then suspended a shipment of fighter bombers to Israel – for less than two months. The same type of missile – this time an AGM 114-C made inGeorgia – was fired by the Israelis into the back of an ambulance near the Lebanese village of Mansori, killing two women and four children. I collected the pieces of the missile, including its computer coding plate, flew to Georgia and presented them to the manufacturers at the Boeing factory. And what did the developer of the missile say to me when I showed him photographs of the children his missile had killed? "Whatever you do," he told me, "don't quote me as saying anything critical of the policies of Israel."