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To: Skeeter Bug who wrote (124803)	9/21/2001 10:15:15 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Skeets, When I criticized the PA's suppression of the videotapes of the post September 11 celebrations, you said: ...if they didn't suppress the tapes, you'd be mad. if they did, you'd be mad. lots of things in the US are suppressed. this doesn't make it right, it makes the US equally wrong. This implies that my criticism was unfounded because a) I'd be mad at them for celebrations with or without the videotapes (true), and b) the US is 'equally wrong' somehow. While not using the words, "you cannot criticize the PA's censorship", imo you clearly implied that the US (and by extension, I) did not have the moral authority to criticize the PA's behavior. This is a false equivalence and an exercise in moral relativism. what i have done is counter the misleading inuendo that arabs are somehow fundamentally bad people who, for absolutely no reason under the sun, have decided to pick on the israel. there is a reasonable source for their anger. Skeets, in your eagerness to counter this 'inuendo', you have adopted the language of the left that does not criticize Palestinian terror (or does so in the mildest possible terms) because they have 'legitimate grievances' and 'natural feelings'. Terror against the Israeli oppressor, that's understandable; terror against the US, now that's terror! This is the same logic that makes the BBC report "8 people died in the continuing cycle of Mideast violence" when three suicide bombers kill five Israeli civilians (as happened about a week ago). This language may not mean to lend support to terror, but in effect it does just that. This is what I've been trying to point out to you. i consider it stealing - taking what wasn't theirs to take, no matter what "arguments" they use to "legitimize" it Would you please take the time to learn some facts about the last 125 years of the history of Palestine/Israel before you spout this simplistic drivel? Your whole logic seems to be, there was no Jewish state 150 years ago; now there is one, ergo they stole it. good thing israel was there to lend a helping hand to the palestinians and take land that some used to call home and not allow them back. but, of course, that is just a minor issue, right? Until 1948 every inch of land was paid for, usually 2 or 3 times over. Far from displacing Arabs, the Zionists attracted a very large inmigration of Arabs to the Jewish settled areas of the coast and the Galilee, who were drawn by the availibility of jobs. In 1948 six Arab armies attempted to drive the Jews into the sea. Is this also a minor issue? or the following wars? or the 500,000 Jewish refugees that Israel absorbed? or the fact that a peace treaty was never negotiated? or the fact that not only were many of the refugees only short-term residents of Palestine (the UN changed the definition of refugee for the Palestinians so that it included anybody who had been resident in Palestine for two years before 1948, contrary to normal usage), but that the local Arab countries used UNWRA as a free welfare agency and dumped their local welfare cases into the 'refugee camps'? or that resettlement was prevented by Arab governments who never issued the refugees work permits or citizenship (Jordan excepted)? Aren't these issues too? in any case, the whole area is screwed up, imho. so much hate, anger and extremism on ALL sides - if you don't hate [fill in the blank] then you are anti [fill in the blank]. my way or the highway on both sides It's screwed up all right. But in my opinion, the Israelis, who operate with a Western mentality, did try to negotiate, while the Arabs prevented negotiations from succeeding. I say 'the Arabs' because the Israelis and Palestinians do not operate in a vacuum (btw, did you ever read the Ben-Ami interview? I'll send it to you if you like) I do not say that Arabs are bad people. I do say that the majority of them still operate from a Arab, not a Western, cultural context. In this context, 'fair' means that Muslims rule and others live at their tolerance. If you doubt this is still true, check out the condition of the Christian communities in the Arab world today. Israel is not a factor in their treatment!