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Politics : High Tolerance Plasticity -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Think4Yourself who wrote (8727)	9/26/2001 4:28:44 PM
From: Sweet Ol	Respond to of 23153

OT. The problem with "eye for eye, tooth for tooth" is that the Arabs and Jews have been doing to each other for 4,000 years and nothing seems to have changes. The retaliation we see on the West Bank today doesn't seem to slow down either side. Just like the Hatfields and the McCoys. BTW, the biblical admonishment "eye for eye, tooth for tooth" was to limit retribution to similar kind. It was to prevent "overkill", but over the years it has been interpreted incorrectly to mean it is OK to get revenge. That is not true, it really means that if you do take revenge, be sure not to take more than you are due. If you only lost a tooth, you do not have the right to take a tooth. Don't take this to mean I am a dove, I am not. I support the president and think the only way to stop this global terrorism is to stop condoning it and to stop looking the other way. It needs to stop everywhere, ME, Ireland, Sudan, Indonesia, etc. Best to all, JRH

To: Think4Yourself who wrote (8727)	9/26/2001 7:09:29 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23153

JQP and Kodiak, Re: Killing the families of terrorists. You guys are getting a little bloodthirsty. Do you really think that end justifies those means? Take a look back in a few weeks and ask yourself if you still agree. Better yet, contemplate some real life facts. Suppose the terrorist is married and has a family. Got him, right? What if the family is an American wife and three kids. Innocents with no knowledge of the hidden side of the terrorist. Not likely but possible. Are you going to murder that American woman and those three little kids? Would you pull the trigger as you looked into those innocent and terrified eyes? Would you kill the kids first and make the mother last or would you kill the mother first and let the kids be last? This would be real stuff. What do you think her brothers, her sisters, or her mother and father would do? What would you do if it were your daughter? If you don't want to kill them, what distinction is there if the wife is Arab? Innocent life is innocent life. Human beings are human beings. Some things in life we should value more than utility. Some lines we should not cross. It's not just a matter of balancing numbers, some principals are so important that they require the inefficient loss of life to uphold. Let me give some examples. Several people are lost and starving. They get weaker each day and the point of no return approaches. If they do not get enought strength to get out soon they will all perish. Should they murder the weakest, eat his flesh and thus save themselves? Should that innocent be killed to save their own lives. Efficiency says yes, what would you do? One guy is out front and wounded. The chances of getting him out are slim but there is a chance. It's likely that several other guys will be wounded and some may be killed trying to get him out. Do you leave that guy out there or do you go after him? Efficiency says to leave him, what would you do? The building is burning and may collapse--. What do you do if you're the fireman? The thing that makes life rich in value is the knowledge that we don't sacrifice the important principles, even as a means to satisfy an important end. That's something that I've always felt immense pride in as an American since I believed it seperated us from much of the world and from much of world history. For sure we don't sacrifice such important ideals until we have tried everything else. Innocent human beings are innocent human beings. Americanism and patriotism can create an "us" and a "them" that makes it easier to dehumanize others. That doesn't make it right and it doesn't make them any less human. There are plenty of people who would do what you suggest, just as there were plenty of people that followed orders and murdered Gypsies, gays and Jews. I don't want to be one of them, either actively or by my silent acquiecense. I don't think you do either. You don't murder and shortcut principles as a way to a better world for your children. You build that kind of world by leading with examples and setting a standard that becomes a standard for the world to follow. International rules come into being based upon such standards. People all over the world come to see things in a different light. That's when terrorism fails. It succeeds when the rules become "whatever works." I don't think we want to lead the world there and I don't think we want our kids to live in that world if we do. Ed