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Politics : America Under Siege: The End of Innocence -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: chalu2 who wrote (5584)9/29/2001 7:50:21 PM
From: Thomas A Watson  Respond to of 27666
 
chalu2, Superb article, thanks. I have read it once and will read it a couple of more times. I hope that there are those many who see the problems within their Islamic world and join in the fight to eradicate the problems.

An Arab Moment of Truth Which way the Islamist fantasy?
nationalreview.com

tom watson tosiwmee watman.com



To: chalu2 who wrote (5584)9/29/2001 9:54:01 PM
From: epsteinbd  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 27666
 
Good and fair. Beyond that, something strange has happened in the Arab World in the last quarter century. Something I'd like you to comment on.

Up to about 1975, the people of Arab countries I knew, had great respect for the US people. Because of the 1943 "pacific invasion" of Morocco and Algeria, at those times the US officers (army) planted the seeds of independence, and it was not forgotten, the people praised you. It is not the Allies that taught democracy to the Arabs, it is the US. It was worth mentioning, and if the political regimes turned out not to be democratic is irrelevant to the question.
Later, the killing of Kennedy, the race against the USSR, as very few Arabs were able to relate to communism for known cultural reasons, the Appollo missions, many people from the Peace Corp or the AFSC doing what they could, now add to it the cars, the beautiful stars all have seen, at least in photos and the known wealth.
All these people knew that life in America was sweeter than at home, and many moved to Canada, construction, and aren't going back.

Now something has happened since 1975.
The young generation, as seen from France (today, it didn't exist, then) has much hate for the US and for France, however that class has local citizenship at will, provided they its members were born here, which is the common case for many financial reasons.
They are not deeply religious, if at all. The young ladies fiercely fight for their individual freedom, and they will fight against any pullback with their nails. They won't carry their virginity to the altar, kind of too late, but, if I may give a socio-guess, they have found out where their power is ("at the end of the gun", Lenin), sexual power and use it to their full advantage with no shame.

What else happened. A couple of Presidents didn't convince them, Reagan and Bush. (remember they hope/expect a lot from you people). Clinton was very much appreciated, and to the point that they care about he Israeli PA conflict, which isn't much as they have their own problems, they perceived he did a good job.
Now they do know that the inter community marriage rate is climbing fast... but is still close to nothing (about 2-3% of their marriages). They know that the "white ones" barely accept living by their side. They know they it will not be easy to integrate the French/Euro society, and they perfectly well know that they won't be given a fair chance to compete against the nationals for the top jobs, government, glamour, business, media or whatever.
And that hurts a lot. And there is no choice. With what has happened, they are becoming desperate as it pushes any " better integration" by a probable decade.
Ther is a lot of hate in many people eyes as they looks at Arabs now. Hate and distrust. It is unfair, but it won't change easily, whatever the Gov does and says.
And probably if this text is correct, then it also applied to the five major Euro nations, and some smaller ones. Sad it is. Sad and unfair, because after all, less than one in a thousand Arabs went to Afganistan.
However deadly that can be...



To: chalu2 who wrote (5584)9/30/2001 8:46:20 PM
From: joseph krinsky  Respond to of 27666
 
The thing about articles like that to me is:
The people always seem to blame everyone and everything except themselves.

If anything the mideast should be far more advanced economically, scientifically, medically, and all the "ally's" you can think of than the U.S..
After all, we've only been here for about 300 or so years.

I think that a large part of their problems stem from their stubborness in accepting change, dwelling on past insults and old vendettas, and basically living in the past.

The U.S. as a general statement lives in the future. we're always looking to find new and better ways, try this, try that. Your old man is a dick and he hurt my old man, and vice versa, but so what, that's between them, let's you and I go shoot some hoops.
What was good enough for me isn't good enough for my kids.

IMO That kind of attitude (amongst many) is part of what sets us apart, and makes us great, and deep down most of the rest of the world wishes they could be like.



To: chalu2 who wrote (5584)9/30/2001 9:00:22 PM
From: epsteinbd  Respond to of 27666
 
Haikal and others spoke about the elite among the Muslim/Arab world, those knowing what "soul searching" can do, and today, decades later, these people are still a very small single digit percentage of the population. And they have no political power, no language that can relate to the masses, no means to fight the advantages of all those who have so much to loose in any mental revolution.They don't have their TV, magazines etc. So how far can they go ?

And I doubt the West could change the mentalities there. It has so much more to do just in self defense...
I am not an optimist these days. Not even if the first battles are won. As long as Iran doesn't change, I mean change, the world is stuck.