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To: jim black who wrote (77669)	9/30/2001 8:02:04 AM
From: lorne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116753

Hello Jim. You said...." The "War Plans" post should be recommended reading for most of the threads on this board."... I think that in addition to what you recommend I think all should watch the program " Beneath The Veil " I think it is being shown on CNN twice to-day. Not real sure of the times but I think one of the times is 1 pm in the east. I have seen parts of this and it is beyond cruel to women and girls. I will never never never understand how any civilized person can support this kind of thing or how any neighbouring countries can permit it. Take care Lorne

To: jim black who wrote (77669)	9/30/2001 9:47:33 AM
From: Richnorth	Respond to of 116753

Terror web unravelling in Europe September 30, 2001 By CNN's Diana Muriel cnn.com BRUSSELS, Belgium (CNN) -- There is mounting evidence in Europe of an extremist Islamic terrorist network with close links to Osama bin Laden. A series of police raids and more than 20 arrests around Europe in recent days has shed more light on the links between groups of terrorists working from the Netherlands to Spain. Key figures thought to have controlled the cells have been arrested in Belgium, the United Kingdom and the United Arab Emirates. Notebooks seized by Spanish police in raids in several cities reveal direct links to London and other European capitals. The six men Arrested in Spain were found with equipment to forge credit cards and other documents. They are believed to be, what investigators call, "sleeper activists." In these radical Islamic groups are those who are prepared for action, and whilst they are prepared there they will also be falsifying documents," said Juan Cotino, Madrid police chief. "They could be getting materials and sending them to those who are in action, and any of them would be ready to act in anything the movement may ask of them." The movement, law enforcement sources say is the Egyptian-based "Salafist group for call and combat" as well as its parallel organization "Takfir Wal Hijra," which translates to excommunication and exile. Both groups had links throughout Europe. The key to breaking the network was the July arrest in Dubai of a man called Djamel Begal. Journalist and writer Claude Moniquet, who has tracked Islamic fundamentalist groups for 20 years, said he believes Begal was an agent for bin Laden. "He was going from Pakistan to Europe, it's quite sure, to send the orders of bin Laden and the associates of bin Laden," Moniquet said, "It was the beginning of the attacks. Begal is the key and link between people in France, Belgium, Holland and maybe in Italy and Spain. During interrogation in Dubai, sources said, Begal told authorities attacks on American interests were being planned. The targets mentioned were the American embassy in Paris and the U.S. consulate in Marseilles. According to the same sources, Begal also gave investigators information about a contact in the Netherlands. It's a lead which is believed to have resulted in four arrests in Rotterdam on September 13. At about the same time, Belgian police arrested Nizar Trabelsi at an apartment building in Brussels. "In his apartment police found incriminating documents, chemical formulas for bomb-making, which led directly to a raid ... at [an] egyptian snack bar right across from the stock exchange in central Brussels where police recovered 220 pounds of sulfur and 13 gallons of acetone," Moniquet said, "the basic ingredients for what police sources say was a bomb big enough to blow up a building." "They also found detailed plans of the American embassy in Paris together with other evidence linking Trabelsi with a French terror cell," Moniquet added. French police moved in last Friday, making seven arrests and recovering helicopter pilot manuals and aeronautical charts showing air approaches to Paris. But a key target of the raid escaped, 23-year-old Kamel Daoudi. "He was the co-ordinator of the French cell," Moniquet said. "It seems that Daoudi was the man who was preparing the attack with his friends in paris for Trabelsi and for Djamel Begal of course." Earlier this week, Daoudi was arrested in the United Kingdom. Police covered his hands with plastic bags so his skin could be tested for traces of explosives. Daoudi is being held for questioning under Britain's anti-terrorism act. Despite the more than 20 arrests in seven European countries, authorities have said many more members of the "Salafist group for call and combat" and its partner "Takfir Wal Hijra" may still be active.

To: jim black who wrote (77669)	9/30/2001 10:21:28 AM
From: Enigma	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

Jim - I've read the Stratfor report too and can't possibly see how you have drawn the conclusion you have! IMO the US has to wage two wars - a cosmetic war - selective strikes on terrorist camps etc, and the more important war - a covert war against terrorism. But things can get out of hand - we're told that SAS and Seals are already on the ground - we've also been told - denied by the Taliban and less emphatically by the US - that 5 of the Americans have been captured. What if we have show trials, prisoners being paraded or used as shields? But one has to be sceptical of all reports now - for example the 'allies' have to be shown to be seen to be doing something - so a (false) report of ground forces in Afghanistan fills the bill rather nicely - for now.

To: jim black who wrote (77669)	9/30/2001 11:33:35 AM
From: SliderOnTheBlack	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 116753

jim black...ie: WAR PLANS I fell asleep on the couch the other night and woke up to a CNN report that I only caught the last few minutes off; but was wondering if anyone has seen ? The report interviewed the surviving parents, wives & children of former suicide bombers and showed how an entire social services system exists to take care of the suicide bombers families & educate their children etc. These families economically are actually better off - after the suicide death of the bombers, than before fwiw. I didn't even catch what country & what city the reporter was in... but, they had the photo's of the martyrd suicide bombers on huge posters lining the streets ! They interviewed the small children of these deceased suicide bombers and these kids WANTED - "to follow in their fathers footsteps and to meet them soon in heaven" etc... They showed entire schools of young children being schooled in this mindset and also organized training camps of 100's of 18-30 year old bombers being specifically trained for these suicide missions. This is an entire generation of ingrained religious fanatacism of whose numbers & degree of commitment we are not prepared to accept. This CNN report/interview was by far... the greatest wake up call I've seen since the WTC attack itself... the number & the degree of this suicide bombing movement is mindboggling. A father of a deceased bomber is treated as a local hero; stated that they do not have tanks & airplanes, or modern technology to fight - so they use what they have... themselves... Today a report also surfaced on FOX that an Iraqui scientist who just defected had good & bad news.... the good news is that Saddam's nuclear program is basically no longer in existance; but that he has 3,000 top Iraqui scientists working 24x7 on developing biologic's and that they presently have drones/missle's capable of delivering these biologic weapons into Israel, Turkey & Saudi Arabia... Recently I met a couple who both served in the Gulf War and the wife was a front line nurse; trained in treating Biologic victims... they had some "home video" circulated amongst then Gulf War soldiers showing what Saddam had & used...then, now nearly 10 years ago.... that he, not Bin Laden is perhaps the "real" most wanted man in this War on Terrorism brings home the reality of Saddam commiting a final act of desperation given the likliehood of him being either taken out by a Special Forces Team, and or his government over-thrown by an occupying force led by US Troops... that he has had a decade to prepare, that the Chinese among others have given him vast amounts of new technologies and that he has had at least 3,000 scientists working 24 x 7 on biologic's makes part deux of the once -"unthinkable" - not just thinkable, but probable....