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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Thomas M. who wrote (5350)	9/30/2001 2:32:20 AM
From: chalu2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

>>It was the Palestinians who expanded agricultural production and sustainable and environmentally appropriate techniques during the 18th and 19th centuries before the arrival of European Jewish settlers. << Ignorant statement, as there were plenty of Jews in the area from ancient times to the present, except for the Crusader Period. Many arrived from Spain before & after 1492 & there were 16,000 Jews in Safed in 1700. I provided that info earlier.

To: Thomas M. who wrote (5350)	9/30/2001 10:41:50 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

Excuse me Thomas... How many politico-military powerhouses are agrarian societies?? It's all well and good that individual Palestinians were talented enough to create a new type of orange... But that's not what has made Israel great. It has been the skilled labor that arrived from Europe and elsewhere that took those new developments, no matter where ever they were invented, and developed business sectors, and opened up export markets for those products. They brought the technology for storing and shipping those products without spoilage. And most importantly, they brought money, and lots of it as a collective whole. They have invested Billions into their economy, and jokers like you believe that they should just give it up to the Palestinians and flee.. And the Israelis purchased most of the land they obtained in Palestine, prior to the British Mandate and war of independence. They had to, since administrative control of the region was under either Turkish or British rule. Another individual was DEAD ON about how land rights were "doled" out previously... If you possessed sufficient political horsepower in Ankara with the Ottoman Sultan, you were GIVEN land that you could dispose of as you saw fit, including selling. Hardly the kind of "property rights" that deserve to be observed by subsequent ruling powers. One of these days you're going to figure out that the middle east is about brute power and national will. And there are various ways in whish power and will can be exhibited. The greatest mistake the Palestinians have made, especially under Arafat, is to focus on military conflict with Israel, trying to dispossess the Israelis of what they have built, rather than the economic and social development of their own people, which would remove their economic dependency upon the Israelis. Or at least the could have focused upon creating a mutually symbiotic dependence with Israel, upon which they could leverage future negotiations for autonomy. But rather than taking the progressive economic development route, as the Israelis did for 40 years before ever truly waging their guerilla war against the British, the Palestinians as STILL dependent upon Israel for jobs and goods. And this is a weapon the Israelis RIGHTLY can use against the Palestinians when they threaten Israel's security. Forget the bleeding heart politics Thomas and you'll go far to understanding the world around you. It's not so much about "right and wrong" but rather about "power and will". Even in the Polis's of Ancient Greece, they understand the concept of "the strong do what they will, and the weak suffer what they must"... It may not be right, and it may not be honorable, but it's reality in the middle east. Hawk