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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Hawkmoon who wrote (5446)9/30/2001 4:02:06 PM
From: Elmer Flugum  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 23908
 
In short, I have a particular dislike of people who colonize others and force them to convert to their way of life, by religion, economics, or militarily.

I do not support them and speak out against them, even if it goes against my own.

I pay particular attention as to whether or not my government (and tax dollars) support such actions. In cases,outside of our support I am less strident.

America should institute a boycott against all Israeli products and American Corporations should shutter it's doors until Palestinian rights, as detemined by International Law, are established and enforced.

This action would be no different than what happened in Apartheid South Africa and should happen in Palestine/Israel. (Ersatz Y'srael).

Indeed, Muslims have been more tolerant of Jews than Christians, genrally speaking. For this, they were rewarded by having a colony foisted upon them.



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (5446)9/30/2001 5:16:16 PM
From: chalu2  Respond to of 23908
 
Len's mindset is not one of compassion for Palestinians, but of hatred for Israel. He claims it has to do with U.S. money & support, but never will he utter a sentence condemning Egypt, which actively persecutes its Christian minority, who are of course third-class citizens because they are "dhimmi":

Recent Actions: Ongoing - The Egyptian government continues to refuse to intervene on the behalf of parents whose daughters are abducted and forced to convert to Islam and then married to Muslim men. By doing so, the police fail to uphold two Egyptian laws. One prevents the conversion of any individual under the age of 16. The other prohibits the marriage of a young woman between the ages of 16 and 21 without the approval and presence of her guardians. Police rarely take action to enforce these laws in the case of abductions of Christians.

Ongoing - Various groups--A common act in rural Egypt is for Muslims to extort money from Christian businesses. This practiced is often justified by the Koranic injunction to charge Christians Jizya, a tax levied on non-Muslims. Extremist groups often use this practice to fund their operations.

Ongoing--Various individuals - It is reported that conversions from Christianity to Islam are often coerced. Poor Christians are often offered financial incentives to convert. There have been a series of reports of Christian girls being abducted and forced to convert to Islam. The International Coptic Federation claims it has documented 218 cases of abduction but it is very difficult to determine the degree of coercion used. In some cases, the girl desires to marry a Muslim boy and is willing to convert to do so. The conversion is performed by the girl saying a one-sentence confession. Seduction, rape, bribery, threats, and violence can also be factors in these cases. The government does little to protect its citizens from such abuses. Please see below for a full description of the government's neglect of its duties.


May 21, 2001 – Dr. Saad Eddin Ibrahim, a champion of the rights of Coptic Christians, was sentenced to 7 years in prison. Dr. Ibrahim, a 61-year-old Muslim, was charged with "tarnishing Egypt’s image, accepting foreign money without government approval and embezzling funds." The charges are all related to a video produced by the Ibn Khaldoun Center in Cairo. The video investigated last October’s parliamentary elections. However, Dr. Ibrahim believes his sentencing was a result of his work on behalf of Coptic Christians.


April 2001 – After 5 years a Christian widow continues to battle for custody of her children. The children of Fayza Abd El-Shaheed Tawfiq are considered Muslims because their father had converted to Islam for a period between 1990 and 1995. In 1995 Emad Ayad Bishay returned to the Christian faith and died shortly thereafter. However, because his official identity card listed him as Muslim, his children are also considered Muslims and as such, under law, should be put in the custody of Muslim guardians.

February 6, 2001 – 57 Muslims and 32 Christians stood trial on charges ranging from murder to looting during the violence in El-Kosheh in early January of last year. Twenty-one Christians and one Muslim were killed in El-Kosheh after a dispute between Muslims and Christians escalated. Of thirty-eight Muslims being tried for murder, only four of them received a sentence. The harshest sentence, 10 years imprisonment, was handed down to Mayez Amin Abdel Rahim for "accidental" homicide and possessing an illegal weapon. Three other Muslims were sentenced to less than 3 years each for setting a tractor-trailer on fire. The judge justified the lack of convictions by saying there was not sufficient evidence and it was unclear which suspects had committed which crimes. Instead he laid the responsibility for the violence on three Coptic priests, Fr. Gabriel, Fr. Bessada and Fr. Isaac, for failing to break up the original quarrel. Coptic Christians are outraged by the court’s decision and say this verdict paves the way for more violence against Copts.


July 26, 2000 – Coptic Christian Fakhri Ayyad Mus’ad was shot to death when local Muslims discovered he was building a church in a nearby field. Three other men were also injured.


July 16, 2000 – Sourial Gayed Isshak was sentenced to three years of hard labor in prison. The Coptic Christian man was found guilty of "insulting one of the heavenly religions" because of statements he uttered on December 30 in El-Kosheh. Mr. Isshak was the first person sentenced in relation to the El-Kosheh incident (see January 2-4, 2000 below) and was tried before other people being detained on murder charges.


June 7, 2000 – State Security Intelligence officers arrested Christian Aziz Tawfik Rezkalah on the charge of preaching the gospel to a Muslim. This was Mr. Rezkalah’s fourth arrest in four years. During each arrest Mr. Rezkalah was stripped naked and taken to interrogation where he was beaten and tortured with electric shock. Mr. Rezkalah is the head of a Coptic Orthodox organization which teaches Coptic Christians about their faith.


June 5, 2000 – Shayboub William Arsal was convicted of the double murder of his cousin and friend in the El-Kosheh incident of August 1998. Mr. Arsal’s "confession" as well the testimony of his two accusers was given under torture. It is reported that Arsal was hung from a window by his arms and legs for 34 days in order to get him to testify against another suspect. When he refused, Arsal himself was accused of the crime, even though he had two alibis. He was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.


April 13, 2000 – About 400 Coptic Christians in Ezbet el Akbat broke into their church, which had been closed by authorities since 1989. The group refused to leave despite police demands and the pleas of their local bishop. The Christians did not leave the church until the next day when they were assured permission to build a new church in the village. Since the closure of their church they had been forced to conduct all religious ceremonies in the street.


March 2000 – The family of a Coptic Christian pharmacist who converted to Islam have questioned the legality of Dr. Hanna Kamal Hanna Morgan’s religious conversion, saying that he was mentally ill and thus was not competent to make such a decision. When a Coptic priest tried to persuade Morgan not to leave the church, he reportedly said "I can’t come back to Christianity or they will burn my pharmacy and me." Since Mr. Morgan is now officially Muslim according to government records, his two daughters are also considered Muslim and thus could be taken from their Christian mother. This is the third case of suspicious religious conversion in El-Fayoum.


February 28, 2000 – Egyptian security forces from the State Security Intelligence (SSI) raided a church service at the St. Mark Coptic Orthodox Church in Al Tor, southern Sinai. The worshippers were forced outside and the doors were welded shut. The security forces also damaged the marble Sacrament table and stole the Holy Altar vessels. Several Christians sent telegraphs to the President, complaining about the incident. They later found out that none of their telegraphs had been sent as the post office officials were forbidden from doing so by the SSI.


January 2-4, 2000 – Around 19 Christians were left dead by the worst sectarian violence to hit Egypt in two decades. The violence resulted from a financial dispute between a Muslim and a Christian shopkeeper in El-Kosheh. The Muslim and his brothers later attacked the Christian’s shop and incited a mob which looted and burned Christian homes, stores, and factories. At least 44 people were injured in addition to those who were killed during the 3 days of violence. Twenty-one people were arrested and charged with looting and arson.


December 13, 1999 – A group of Muslims attacked construction workers who were building a fence at the First Evangelical Church in Assuit. The workers were forced to leave and were threatened with death if they resumed their work.


December 10, 1999 – In the village of Awlad in Sohaag, Upper Egypt, a group of Muslim men attacked the Church of Mare-Guirgess. The armed men fired randomly at the building, which was being renovated. The attack caused parts of the building to collapse and damaged a crane used in construction.


May 1999 — A new law was passed that restricts the actions of Non-Governmental Organizations (NGO’s), especially those dealing with human rights issues. One article of the law in question would require the boards of these NGO’s to be pre-approved by the government and a government official to be a sitting member on the board. All NGO’s were given three months to comply or face being closed.


May 9, 1999 - After an investigation by the Egyptian government of the "El-Koshuha Incident," charges of brutality and torture against the four police officers were dropped and the case was officially closed. This was despite the large volume of evidence to the contrary that is said to exist. In addition, each of the four officers were given cash rewards of 1000 Egyptian pounds for their cooperation in the case.

December 1, 1998 - Egyptian Organization of Human Rights Secretary-General Hafez Abu Saada was arrested for publishing a report of the "El-Kosheh Incident" (see August 14, 1998 entry) that the government deemed to be harmful to the international image of Egypt and for allegedly accepting foreign funds to do so. He was released December 6th on bail. However now, the author of the article was reportedly in the process of being arrested also.


October 11, 1998 - Because of their reporting of the "El-Kosheh Incident"to human rights NGO’s, Bishop Wessa of Baliand and two Coptic priests have been arrested and accused of spreading matters damaging to nation unity and social peace (Article 86 penal code), using religion to incite strife and damaging to nation unity and social peace (Article 98 penal code), attempting to influence the outcome of a court case and investigation (Article 171, 187 penal code), delivering an insult or criticism while carrying out their duties as priests (Article 201 penal code), and presenting false information in an investigation (Article 145 penal code).


August 14, 1998 - Two young Christian men were killed in the village of El-Kosheh, Dar Assalam and Governate of Soha, Egypt. The local Coptic Bishop reported that the consensus of the village was that the killers were three Muslim men who were known to police. The police made no effort to apprehend this individuals but rather rounded up nearly 1,200 Christians, including men, women, and children, during the course of the following week. During their detainment, it is reported that these people suffered verbal abuse and physical abuse that included electrical shock, whippings, beatings, and being hung from their feet for extended periods of time. It is believed much of this activity was aimed at obtaining false confessions to the murders. It was been reported that 11 year-old Romani Boctor was suspended from a spinning ceiling fan for several hours in an attempt to get his father to confess to the murders. It is also reported that a fourteen-month-old baby was beaten in front of her mother to get the mother to confess. A 14 year-old girl was sexually assaulted in an attempt to make her lose her virginity. This was so the police could claim that her father and fiance killed the two men for having a sexual encounter with the girl. All the detained individuals were released within a week. No suspects in the crime have been arrested.

Prisoners: William Shayboub Arsal (see June 5, 2000 above) and Sourial Gayed Isshak (see July 16, 2000 above). It is highly possible that there are other Christians being held. Muslim Human Rights advocate, Dr. Ibrahim is also being held (see May 21, 2001 above).