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To: Ilaine who wrote (10521)	10/1/2001 5:27:50 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

A couple of posts from Iqbal Latif which suggest workable solutions are in progress. Message 16436422 Message 16437185 Essentially, "we are saying to the Afghan people, the Taliban wasn't elected by the Afghani people, they are a self-imposed dictatorship. If you want to get rid of them, we will help you." Which is similar to what we said to the Afghanis 20 years ago, when the Russians were trying to take over, and to the Nicaraguans, when the Sandinistas were trying to take over. And if the people who we help get rid of the Taliban turn out to be bastards, we'll be blamed. But it won't mean that we want bastards to take over. And such are the burdens and moral ambiguities of the Pax Americana. You guys pay attention, you're learning how history really works. It's like making sausages or making laws. Watching really close is sort of sickening.

To: Ilaine who wrote (10521)	10/1/2001 7:06:21 PM
From: TobagoJack	Respond to of 74559

Hi CB, saw the CNN show you mentioned. There is no material philosophical difference between the Taliban and the Red Guards. Yes, US should do it, as it is doing now, by strategy, alliance, philosophical leadership, and making help available to the locals. But as much as possible, less by doing so directly, and more by supporting the locals to do. Then, do not abandon the place again after the immediate crisis. There is little difference between what happened in Cambodia’s killing fields vs. what is now happening in Afghanistan soccer stadium … direct and misdirected intervention and war by proxy, destruction of organized society, chaos, followed by quick abandonment, giving rise power vacuum, and then to organized extremism, made worse yet by prolonged neglect by the powers responsible for original war by proxy, fought ostensibly over ideas, but actually for spheres. There is injustice everywhere in the world, and not all of equal magnitude in danger (Nazi Germany vs. N. Ireland), and all must be addressed (rubble in Manhattan vs. rubble in Israel and Palestine), corrected, but smartly, not simply always by using a bigger hammer, because it sets a sometimes thoughtless and often ignorant precedence, and teaches others to use hammers bigger still. If I believed all the world’s ills are best solved by direct and forceful intervention, I would endorse such a course. Chugs, Jay