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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ian@SI who wrote (53578)	10/2/2001 4:21:49 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 70976

Ian, Great post. You said it much better than i was able to. I believe that i will not comment on this anymore as well. No one's minds will be changed. Hopefully our leadership will follow the correct path, mitigating unnecessary violence but removing the cancer nevertheless, so our children and grandchildren can live in peace and freedom as well as just plain live. mike

To: Ian@SI who wrote (53578)	10/2/2001 4:55:26 PM
From: Proud_Infidel	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 70976

Last OT The enemy is a cancer threatening civilization. That cancer must be removed. The other option is to accept that you, I, billions of others and our children will not be tolerated in the world envisioned by that cancer. Ian, If ever there was a justification for the use of force, this is it; you will get no argument from me on the heinous nature of these crimes. Even though I will probably not agree with the tactics used by our side, I surely understand them. Regards, Brian

To: Ian@SI who wrote (53578)	10/2/2001 5:14:25 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 70976

OT: well said. I used to be a pacifist, but I have changed my views, after seeing a lot of violent people, and a lot of victims. I've come to see that violence will continue, if it is rewarded in any way. The only way to stop it, is to have a set of rules for CivilizedBehavior, and to be prepared to enforce those rules, using any means necessary. Pacifism doesn't work, because they don't have any effective way of punishing violent behavior. Having dealt with a lot of violent people, I am firmly convinced that they (correctly)see pacifism as a weakness, to be exploited. I lived in an Inuit community for 6 years, and I'd agree that their values are "peace, life and community". And, I'd agree, that they had severe and effective ways of enforcing Group Rules (or used to, till contact with Western Civilization). In a place where winter lasts 9 months, and it can get to 40 below, humans can only survive in cooperative groups. It isn't necessary to put someone out on an ice floe. All you have to do is do nothing, ignore them, stop actively helping them, stop sharing with them. That's a death sentence, quick and certain. They had a society where everyone was very, very careful not to upset anyone else, not to break the rules. There was no "Us vs. Them" in their society (until the white missionaries arrived a century ago). Everyone was Us, there was no demonized Them. They were a peaceful unified society, because the consequences of not getting along were draconian.