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Politics : High Tolerance Plasticity -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Telemarker who wrote (9111)10/6/2001 2:49:46 PM
From: jim_p  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 23153
 
T,

I still feel we have more to be concerned about with deflation than inflation.

The world is a different place today.

As long as the world continues to lower trade barriers and open up trade, China is the eight hundred pound gorilla that will keep a lid on inflation.

Just ask Japan, one of China's main trading partners.

Just too many people in China and other countries who are willing/glad to work for near nothing to worry about inflation.

JMHO,

Jim



To: Telemarker who wrote (9111)10/6/2001 3:58:07 PM
From: que seria  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 23153
 
Telemarker: Good links, and you should be a bit scared if
you haven't got some of the investment that dare not speak its name. JP Morgan just got some, buying 8% of DROOY, no doubt in order to further hedge its derivative position. That position has been widely thought to include a large bet against gold rising.

I think the two articles are a bit overdone. For example, MZM is about more than the Fed deciding to add liquidity; investors shift their assets from stock funds to money market funds and thus add MZM liquidity. A lot of that was going on beginning September 17. Still, the articles speak some essential truths, most often associated with Austrian economic theory. I share their basic premise.

I'm long gold shares and about to get more so. But I've kept enough tech and E&P positions to enjoy the up days in those sectors. I have another hedge, being long some puts. To me the key to capital preservation here is not being out of the market (given the inflation risks the first article notes, plus our inability to predict the future), but having a mix of positions that leaves one hedged to his comfort level against the risks he sees.

For my part, I discount deflation risk--the last year's Forbes bugaboo--to zero. First, I agree with the Austrians that inflation consists of pumping up the supply of money and credit (I would say raising it above the rate of real growth). Second, I don't agree that deflation of an asset bubble, as we're still seeing with stocks and have yet to see with real estate, is "deflation" in the historical sense of an overall falling price level.

I believe there is recession and inflation before our eyes. The combination was once called stagflation, but its nasty CPI manifestations have been largely held in check because money and credit went into the asset bubble. Now that the feds rig the CPI and there are very important unanswered questions about their swapping, leasing and/or selling parts of our nation's gold reserves, both historic price signals for inflation may be compromised. I believe that in any democracy today, you can count on the government to inflate. That is the short term solution that isn't just "standing there," but constitutes "doing something."

I would thus start my planning by abandoning any thought that politicians will act in the people's long term interest (i.e., let market participants themselves benefit or suffer from whatever wise or foolish capital allocations they made), mostly because they lack the necessary knowledge and conviction about free market economics. Politicians in and wanting to be in power will be advocating more government as the solution to problems that few will realize (and fewer will say) the government itself created. That will not be good for stocks or bonds, IMO, unless they are of solid gold companies or of a few others in niches that do well in troubled times.

If you're pondering the entire financial system going down, in the sense of markets being closed and deposits unavailable, I have no opinion. I guess I'd be buying land, seeds, farm equipment, etc. if I doubted that I will be able to liquidate my market positions at market value as needed. I expect the only situation that would prevent my doing so would be one rendering largely moot my financial asset classes. I don't see much point in physical gold. You can move assets into other currencies, stocks, or funds, across the globe, faster and safer than you can visit your local gold dealer.



To: Telemarker who wrote (9111)10/6/2001 4:40:23 PM
From: energyplay  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 23153
 
Defaltion first, then inflation if we are lucky ;-)

Telemarker - Your concern for inflation is appropriate. Inflation often tends to show up months or years after sharp money supply increases. It shows up quicker (like 9-12 months) when the economy is running near capacity, and tends to have a much longer delay (18 months to as much as 2 1/2 years) when the economy is slowing

Drivers for Deflation -

6) Velocity of money has dropped. Effective money pressure on prices depends on both the money supply (like MZM) and how quickly it moves & turns over in the economy. This movement is know by the delightful term "velocity of money".

Even before the attacks, consumer & business spending was decilining , and consumer savings for August actually increased. This was amplified after the attack, with retail sales and credit card charges dropping sharply.

What might be called the physical velocity of money dropped, as payroll checks delivered by FedEx were stopped and delayed. Also, the bond trading business was severly affected.

This drop in the velocity of money was so sudden that it will absorb all the liquidity pumped in from August to the end of September. It would take consumer behaviour returning to near normal to convert this to real spending which could push prices and wages.

Sharp drops in the velocity of money soak up liquidity - Japan is a good example of this.

5) One BIG source of money during the boom was the reduction of inventories & WIP (work-in-progress, stuff in the manufacturing cycle, like partiallly assembeled cars) . Using electronics, bar codes, tracking software, and good supply chain management, companies were able to reduce inventories for the same sales. Dell is a great example, turning inventory abut 20 times a year, versus the 4-7 typical of average manufacturing. The money squeezed out of inventories was used to pay down debt and buy back stock - especailly when management was heavily compensated with stock otpions ;-)

The slow down in transportation, due to increased security, will require more inventories - this will require money, but that money won't be available to chase goods.

4) Vast oversupply and overcapacity in almost all industry - Want DRAM computer memory ? It's cheap ! Want Natural gas - 1/3 the price of last year. Want a new car, Hey we're DEALING ! How about Class A office space - we'll throw in some cool Aero chairs, some Sun servers, and a foosball table !

You can even get drill rigs !

3) Recent surplus - The Federal government had a surplus of 250 Billion in 2000, and about 150 Billion through July. Much of the money was used to buy back bonds, especially long term bonds. This destroys money.

2) 300++ Billion defaults & downgrades on Telecom bonds and telecom lending - this destroys money also, and will impair bank lending.

1) The 5 Trillion drop in the value of equities. How much of this can be regarded as 'nominal' and how much can be regarded as real I don't know. If we assume that about 20-30% of the nominal value was thought of as a real asset,
then there is a loss of over 1 Trillion dollars. This is not just 'wealth effect' , but real wealth.

This is the 800 pound gorilla of deflation.

The drop in housing prices (just starting) is likely to have some effect also, but slower.

Running against these factors, the Fed and other central banks will pump & pump, just to bail the boat out. I expect defaltion to continue at least until this time next year. Later, inflation will be an almost certainty...but that may take YEARS - Japan has not been able to inflate yet.

Also, I expect inflation to show up selectively at first - maybe silver jumps, and gold follows a year later. Maybe lumber prices soar, and oil prices stay flat for years, or vice versa. Consumer values have shifted as a result of the attacks of 9/11, and the economy will change too, in ways which I can't yet see.

What I am doing - first deal wtih defaltion with solid Treasury bonds, bond funds etc. Second, slowly accumulate a MODERATE amoount some DIVERSE inflation hedges at good prices, such as precious metals & mining stocks, standing timber & forest stocks, stocks with large oil reserves. Except for precious metals, which may have bottomed in June / July, these other stocks are still dropping, so patience and care is in order.

I am not going to bet the farm on inflation occuring on a fixed schedule - remember, in Japan, they are still deflating.

Consider TIPS, TIP funds and I-bonds as way top get both a bond & an inflation hedge.

The more adventurous/foolish may consider shorting/ puts of overpriced stocks, such as technolgy, consumer finance, and some natural gas companies

**************
I don't beleive the sky is falling - the U.S. economy will just repeat the 1970's to early 1980's , with recession & inflation (Stagflation)

************* A note on the Return of the 70's ********************************

With vigilance by all of us, we can prevent the return of disco music. Rest assured that appropriate agencies of the federal government have John Travolta, the BeeGees and Donna Summer are under constant electronic monitoring.

<energyplay>