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To: Richnorth who wrote (78023)	10/6/2001 3:20:37 PM
From: jim black	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116753

In Korea we used M1 Garand which uses 30-06 Springfield, maybe a few M1A'a which uses the 308, also called the 7.62mm NATO, while the AK47 uses a 30 caliber of different length, the 7.62X39, which is also now used in this country in the Ruger Mini-14, that rifle not being developed until well after Korea was history. Our troops did have some problems with the M16 223 caliber and weapon but it was fixed later on, now being a very effective weapon for treacherous bipeds, virtually worthless for anyhting but the smallest of game except in the best of hands. The M16 is a beefed up 22 for heaven's sake, nowhere near a 308 or 30-06 It is true the AK 47 has a remarkable reputation for reliability, but it is a loose and violent action that suffers from heavy use and needs plenty of spare parts. FWIW...I have fired them all and yes the 338 kicks quite a bit but less so if fired from the Browning BAR semi-auto. They all pale beside traditional big game cartridges for Africa like the 458 Win Magnum, and the 416 Rigby. I actually load my 45/70 an ancient 19th centurty caliber to heavy loads that kick as badly as a 338. OT but what the hell, we are sitting here waiting with bated breath for the next move, either side, and there is no gold market to follow today. jim black

To: Richnorth who wrote (78023)	10/6/2001 4:13:51 PM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

The AK47 used the 7.92 Russian. US stuff used 30 calibre of two types. Heaviest weapon I ever fired was a nike Missile. It had 5,000 pounds of rdx and tnt in the nose. Heck of a kick. They should bring it back, as in 1958 it was as accurate as a cruise missile, was 5 times as fast, could turn at 20 G's and could shoot down another nike! Range was about 600 miles. It was ground control but this could be changed easily. The M1 carbine could be used in tanks and jeeps as more or less an auto side arm. It was effective out to 400 yards and nobody had a parallel to it except the sturmgewehr 43 of the SS which used the kurzpatrone or modified rifle ammo. The M1 was a light and effective jungle gun. The Garand was too heavy (11 pounds) but packed more punch than any other stock issue infantry weapon. It could be used for sniping out to one mile and a half. It used the same ammo as the BAR, which is the peerless 180 grain 3000 FPS 30-06. For all around effectiveness and cost though it is hard to beat the AK47 for an assault weapon. I think the all around best weapon would be a combo of a type of shotgun/rocket mortar with quick manual or auto range set, or contact burst, and a long range (2000 yard) rifle. It should have regular iron sights for fast shots and optical rangefinder too. A bursting shot is more effective if you can place it and burst it at range than a ballistic projectile. If the rocket mortar had 50 grams powder and 50 grams iron and 1200 yard range with various trajectory envelopes, it would be a real life saver. Trick is to keep the weapon light, less than ten pounds. With composites it may be possible. EC<:-}

To: Richnorth who wrote (78023)	10/7/2001 12:47:31 AM
From: long-gone	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

<<Garand in favour of the A. Kalashnikov whenever they could get their hands on it because it uses the same ammo and is less liable to jam. Comments, please!>> No! Difference in length of 30-06(.308 bullet dia.) & 7.62X39 Eastern Block(.311-.312 bullett dia.) is EXCESSIVE!!!! No way it would work with even safe results! At this moment my Starrett's read O.A.L. 3.323" for 30-06 but only 2.154 for the 7.62X39 - both military head stamped. The 7.62X54 A.K. still carries a .311 bullet.