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To: Eric K. who wrote (57643)	10/8/2001 1:08:54 AM
From: Dan3	Respond to of 275872

Re:what I see is a bunch of (mostly) Arabs who are really pissed off about persistent and sustained American support for... Fine. Over the next few weeks they'll have the opportunity to get pissed off about a few more things. The United States hasn't been attacked on its own soil for nearly 200 years (Hawaii wasn't a state when it was attacked by the Japanese). Bin Laden and his buddies are about to gain a whole new level of understanding of the concept of "pissed off", this time from the receiving end. Other countries and cultures throughout the world have long enjoyed sniping at the one remaining superpower, and certainly we've often deserved some criticism. But never before in the history of human civilization has any nation, kingdom, empire, etc. with anywhere near the power the US has been anywhere near as benign and considerate of its neighbors - and most of the other countries and peoples on the planet know this and appreciate it. The ones that don't will get to see an alternate form of behavior by the US.

To: Eric K. who wrote (57643)	10/8/2001 1:18:17 AM
From: wanna_bmw	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 275872

Erik, maybe your psychoanalysis of Osama bin Laden has merit, but the plain fact is that no matter what his beliefs are, and no matter what his goals are, murdering innocent people is a dastardly crime against humanity! Besides the way the media has chosen to portray bin Laden and his organization for being jealous of the freedom and democracy of the American people, the fact is that the Palestinians have a long history of racism and bias against the Israeli people that predate the lives of any of the people currently alive. This inbred hatred has been recentered towards America for our aid of Israel as opposed to the Palestinians, who believe that they have more of a right to the Israeli land than do the people currently living there. So what do these people decide to do? They take up arms, and kill thousands of innocent civilian lives in the hopes that the atrocity would break apart the American way of life, and open the way towards future devastations on more primary targets. You seem to think that bin Laden's organization numbers in the dozens, when the proven truth is that it numbers in the hundreds, and possibly thousands. bin Laden's goal was not just one attack to prove that America can live in the same fear that the Palestinians have lived in for generations, but it was only the start of a movement to bring himself into power and lead even more people towards more senseless destruction. The U.S. has the obligation to act swiftly and effectively, and they've given the Taliban regime plenty of time to have their demands met. The Taliban failed to deliver, and now there is no more waiting. The U.S. knows who are terrorists, and who are civilians. The intelligence is such that this is an educated attack, only to remove the threat of more lives lost. bin Laden can make it seem like an attack on the Islamic culture, or a forcing of American beliefs, but you should know better that the U.S. has no intention of forcing any beliefs on the Afghani people, or any one else in the Middle East. This is retaliation to bin Laden's attack on New York and Washington DC, and self defense from future attacks. It should be obvious to you. It is to the rest of us here. wanna_bmw

To: Eric K. who wrote (57643)	10/8/2001 1:19:43 AM
From: fp_scientist	Respond to of 275872

Re: frustration over the million or so Iraqi people who have died after a decade of sanctions Why don't they take it with Saddam who is mainly responsible for the situation? Check today's Barrons. A very successful investor, David Alger, was among the victims at the WTC. It could have been you or me. Be assured that if the terrorists had a chance, they would wipe out Stanford and Palo Alto from the map. See, it is a "cultural issue." Most academics are non-religious. fp

To: Eric K. who wrote (57643)	10/8/2001 7:45:37 AM
From: Yousef	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 275872

Eric, Re: "Hitler was a military genius who couldn't manage to rise above corporal during the First World War?" Actually, Hitler was a military IDIOT ... However, he DID have some Generals that were brilliant. You need to study your history. Make It So, Yousef

To: Eric K. who wrote (57643)	10/8/2001 10:51:44 AM
From: Pravin Kamdar	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 275872

Erik, It is not "questioning our values" to contemplate why 20 educated, intelligent people plus a network of at least a few dozen supporters, all of whom spent at least some time in the West, chose to blow up American buildings and kill thousands of cilivians. It is very convenient to posit that they are an evil, depraved bunch somehow offended by the existence of prosperity and freedom in America. Jealousy and irrational beliefs have motivated many terrible incidents in human history, but after having read around twenty of Team Bin Laden's pieces over the last decade, what I see is a bunch of (mostly) Arabs who are really pissed off about persistent and sustained American support for Zionism over the right to hope and opportunity for their Palestinian "brothers" and frustration over the million or so Iraqi people who have died after a decade of sanctions that have yet to yield any positive changes in the leadership of Iraq. Of course nothing can justify the NY attacks, but your analysis of the reason is spot on. And, although I am impressed with the Bush administration's performance since the attacks, they do not do the country service by trying to hide the real reason for resentment of American under the veil of a hatred for our freedoms. Pravin.

To: Eric K. who wrote (57643)	10/8/2001 2:29:04 PM
From: tejek	Respond to of 275872

It is not "questioning our values" to contemplate why 20 educated, intelligent people plus a network of at least a few dozen supporters, all of whom spent at least some time in the West, chose to blow up American buildings and kill thousands of cilivians. It is very convenient to posit that they are an evil, depraved bunch somehow offended by the existence of prosperity and freedom in America. Jealousy and irrational beliefs have motivated many terrible incidents in human history, but after having read around twenty of Team Bin Laden's pieces over the last decade, what I see is a bunch of (mostly) Arabs who are really pissed off about persistent and sustained American support for Zionism over the right to hope and opportunity for their Palestinian "brothers" and frustration over the million or so Iraqi people who have died after a decade of sanctions that have yet to yield any positive changes in the leadership of Iraq. You may well be right that its more than just simple jealousy that had motivated these terrorists. However, I think our support of Zionism is not the only motivator of their rage. I think the West's coveting of the Mideast's oil, our interference in their politics in general, and our support of certain repressive regimes play an equally important part in fostering their rage against the US. I, too, have been reading some of bin Laden's tracts and his interviews with foreign press. Given his history as a richboy with little direction who needed a cause, I believe bin Laden may have found himself to be the front man for the real terrorists. And as for his for followers, they may have been "educated, intelligent people" but they also were fatalistic, misguided idealogues/religious zealots with considerable sums of money at their disposal....a bad combination. Apparently, bin Laden and his cell did not believe that they and their beliefs/cause had our active attention. They do now....and nothing will ever be the same again. ted