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Politics : High Tolerance Plasticity -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: energyplay who wrote (9206)	10/9/2001 12:54:19 AM
From: chowder	Respond to of 23153

EP, in my unscientific economic study, gas is down to 1.17 per gallon here in SC. Auto dealers are selling cars with zero interest up to 5 years and if you squeeze em, you get the rebates too. Good credit, bad credit, no credit at all. Come one come all! Not good for profits, eh? Retail department store sales are way down. Executives of department stores are constantly visiting stores, pressuring sales people to increase sales. We're seeing layoffs in department stores. Wow! My son works at Target after school. He had to work Sunday night and he said he didn't get a break for the 5 hours he worked because he was continually ringing up the register. Looks like discount stores are doing OK. dabum

To: energyplay who wrote (9206)	10/9/2001 1:23:12 AM
From: bob oserin	Respond to of 23153

I hemmed and hawed before I decided to post this. But I think posters should understand how we (and our allies) find ourselves in the situation we are in. May I suggest the following bibliography: Online- Atlanticmonthly-Sept.01-Article-THE ARABISTS Books- The Prize -D. Yergin -The definitive history of OIL Philby, The Arabist - Monroe - The political intrigue of controlling the flow of oil. The books of John Loftus - The intrigue of "Old Spies" in determining how Islamic oil loyaties were manipulated. From declassified intelligence files and interviews of retired agents,government officials and others.

To: energyplay who wrote (9206)	10/9/2001 1:59:11 AM
From: StanX Long	Respond to of 23153

I am a somewhat regular on the AMAT thread, but following this as well as several others as a lurker. We live in Mountain View, CA and have for over twenty years. My wife just got back from one of the largest Malls in Los Altos a nearby city. She said,"the Mall was empty, I stop for fries at Burger King, and the was no one else but me, it was strange". Today my boss told me, "I was at Fry's on Sunday, it was empty, I have never seen it this bad". :0( Stan

To: energyplay who wrote (9206)	10/9/2001 2:17:38 AM
From: Warpfactor	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23153

Bay Area housing update, EP. My wife and I were visiting properties in Alameda with a local realtor this past weekend. What a difference a year makes. Prices still high, but we were surprised to find that we could actually afford something. I use the word "afford" in a Bay Area context. A 1600 sq. ft., 3BR 2BA townhouse in the desirable "Harbor Bay" area can be had for $350,000. Another property we visited, best described as a "patio" home, also 3BR, 2BA with ~1600 sq. ft., was asking $414,000, down from original $430,000. On the market for about 45 days. This house was relatively new, modern architecture, also in the Harbor Bay area. We're going to try and lowball this one with a $370,000 offer. Lots and lots of properties on the market, despite the historic low interest rates. The realtor indicated that stuff was still selling, but the housing market has definitely shifted to the buyers favor. There were several properties on the market for over 100 days, and many that have dropped the asking price by 10-20% over the original asks. Prices are definitely down from earlier this year, but YOY I believe they may not be negative yet. if you want a modern 4BR in a nice neighborhood, you are still looking at $500K to $600K. I believe that many of these sellers are in for rude awakenings. I am concerned however, that if we buy a property now, we could find ourselves in a hole 6 months down the road. I could see Bay Area property continue to devalue by 20% from here. One the other hand, interest rates are very favorable - 6.25% for a 30-yr fixed (1 pt). Warp

To: energyplay who wrote (9206)	10/9/2001 6:43:29 AM
From: Second_Titan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23153

Energyplay - Things appear to be dead here as well. I went to the movies this weekend for the matinee, my sons and I were the only three people who viewed the movie. When we left the movie I did not run into one customer at the counter or the bathroom in a 6 screen theater. Now you have anthrax in the mail, who is going to go to major events and be surrounded by people now?

To: energyplay who wrote (9206)	10/9/2001 10:00:44 AM
From: William JH	Respond to of 23153

Restricted airspace - Post-attack security rules cut flights out of Fullerton airport (general aviation) by 80%, and might force it to dip into reserve funds. Edit: The link isn't working, here is the article: October 5, 2001 By ERIC CARPENTER The Orange County Register FULLERTON -- The roar of an airplane engine breaks the lead en silence in the office of Fullerton Municipal Airport manager Rod Propst. Where some 230 planes and helicopters once buzzed daily through the skies above the airport, now there are fewer than 50 flights a day. "That's the first one taking off in the last half-hour," Propst says, looking out a window facing the runway. "It's usually an almost-constant thing." Take-offs and landings are down 80 percent at Fullerton - the county's only airport solely dedicated to general aviation - because heightened security restrictions stemming from the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the East Coast have prohibited most of the airport's flights. And, with no definite date for lifting those restrictions, the $1 million a year, self-supporting operation expects to dip into reserves to remain financially stable. "We can't operate like this forever," Propst said. The airport falls within a patch of restricted airspace that circles roughly 25 miles around Los Angeles International Airport. Since the days after the attacks, only pilots who operate with instruments and file a specific flight plan are allowed to fly in that area, called Class B airspace. Pilots who operate under visual flight rules are prohibited indefinitely from the skies in that area. That means most of the 350 small planes and helicopters based at Fullerton's airport remain grounded, unable to transport cargo or business leaders to and from meetings. The four major leaseholders at the airport that fuel, service and rent out planes already have asked for relief from paying their $5,000 to $10,000 monthly rents. Propst said that request likely would be granted by using reserve funds. "We are doing all we can for now, trying to take some of the burden," Propst said. Fullerton is losing business to nearby airports, including John Wayne and LaVerne's Brackett Field. Those airports are just outside of the Class B airspace, so small planes, corporate jets and helicopters there are back in operation. "Our general aviation operations have returned to normal," said Yolanda Perez, John Wayne Airport spokeswoman. About 80 percent of flights there are general aviation. Five other regional airports -- Santa Monica, Torrance, Long Beach, Compton and Hawthorne -- are under Class B restrictions. Federal Aviation Administration officials said the restrictions are because of "ongoing security concerns." Jerry Snyder, regional spokesman for the FAA, said this office is working with the FBI and other federal agencies. He said he couldn't be more specific about what the security concerns are or when the restrictions might end. "I certainly understand the frustration. I can only urge those affected to follow the president's advice and be patient," Snyder said. Fullerton aviators said they believe the rules are unfair because they appear random and unnecessary. On Thursday, dozens of them took part in a campaign to call and e-mail Congressional representatives, asking that the FAA lift the restrictions. "I would be willing to do my part if this were something that affected everybody (in aviation), but it doesn't," said Bill Griggs Sr., president of AFI, which has operated a flight school and rented out planes at Fullerton airport for 36 years. "To use an arbitrary line is unfair," he said. "And it doesn't do a twit for national security." Propst said he had expected small planes would be allowed back in the air before commercial planes, because small planes pose little obvious security threat. "A person could do more damage packing an SUV full of explosives than a plane full," Propst said. "But they haven't closed down the 57 freeway." Propst said he is trying to be patient. But money is being lost with each day that passes. And nobody wants to consider dipping into the city's general fund to help support the airport, he said. Coincidentally, a major airport reconstruction project is set to begin Monday at Fullerton airport, which opened in 1927 and is one of the oldest general-aviation airports in California. The $2.7 million project, funded by federal grant money, will improve drainage and repave taxiways. To receive the money, the city had to agree that the airport would continue operating for at least 20 years. "The airport will survive," Propst said. "But I wish I knew if (the restrictions were) going to end tomorrow or a year from now. "I'd hate to see an airport operating with no services."

To: energyplay who wrote (9206)	10/9/2001 10:50:50 AM
From: chowder	Respond to of 23153

EP, our Governor was on television earlier today stating that tourism is down considerably. The State is trying to come up with ways to get people to visit our state. We have also set aside a weekend where all South Carolinians are being asked to travel around the state to help our economy. It doesn't look good. Our SC Gamecocks led by Lou Holtz aren't having a problem drawing crowds though. We are now ranked #9 nationally. From the state where it's politically correct to yell "How bout them COCKS!" in public....... GO COCKS! dabum

To: energyplay who wrote (9206)	10/9/2001 11:20:53 AM
From: Gottfried	Respond to of 23153

energyplay, Costco yesterday was as busy as ever and it was hard to find parking [Sunnyvale, CA]. Costco had regular for about $1.46 [I don't remember for sure], far below other discount stations. Colonize terrorist states? An intriguing WSJ editorial. Excerpt Countries that cannot live at peace with their neighbors and wage covert war against the international community cannot expect total independence. With all the permanent members of the Security Council now backing, in varying degrees, the American-led initiative, it should not be difficult to devise a new form of United Nations mandate that places terrorist states under responsible supervision. Message 16474611 Gottfried

To: energyplay who wrote (9206)	10/9/2001 2:15:05 PM
From: energyplay	Respond to of 23153

Thanks to everyone who commented on retail activity. Looks like the discount places (CostCo, WallMart, Target) are doing well, and the middle and high end is hurting.

To: energyplay who wrote (9206)	10/9/2001 2:21:31 PM
From: stockman_scott	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23153

energyplay: On Sunday I was in downtown Chicago with some relatives....Michigan Avenue was packed (partly due to the fact that we had The Chicago Marathon in the morning). Yet, many of the well known stores (like Nordstroms) were busy...I'm not sure how much folks were buying though. Later in the day we went to The Art Institute of Chicago and saw an amazing new Van Goh and Gauguin exhibit -- it was packed and the large gift shop was doing a steady flow of business. I think people here in the Midwest are trying to get back to doing 'normal things' with friends and family. Yet, I took the train home with my brother and on Sunday night we encountered more security than I have ever seen (including agents with bomb sniffing dogs). Regards, Scott