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Politics : Piffer Thread on Political Rantings and Ravings -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (1960)10/10/2001 5:26:09 AM
From: CVJ  Respond to of 14610
 
GWB said it a little more succinctly:

"You are with us or you are with the terrorists."

I read that as meaning there are no neutrals, there are no sidelines. You all want us to be the the world's policeman? Well guess what? We just called out the SWAT Team and you're either on it or a target of it. Your choice; time's running out. Pick a side. Now.

Chas



To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (1960)10/10/2001 7:43:09 AM
From: arno  Respond to of 14610
 
Yeah!....What you said.

A couple of minor points:

1) so we are not going to be selling you anymore oil

We (U.S.) get very little of our oil from the Middle East. I'm not sure of the percentage, but most of our 'imported' oil comes from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. Japan and Germany are fully dependent on the ME.

2)I am so sick of hearing how evil the U.S. is....how dishonest

Some people think the reason we 'let' Saddam invade Kuwait was so U.S. corporations could get contracts to rebuild it.



To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (1960)10/10/2001 8:19:42 AM
From: Oral Roberts  Respond to of 14610
 
Very nicely said. I've been feeling this way for some time but didn't think I could voice it without the F word every other word.



To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (1960)10/10/2001 8:33:03 AM
From: Perry Ganz  Respond to of 14610
 
JXM
it's a great policy, I think in short you could say
"Lead, Follow or Get the Fuck Out of the Way"
Perry



To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (1960)10/10/2001 9:41:58 AM
From: Augustus Gloop  Respond to of 14610
 
Great post. Ya know these people should be happy we have as little influence over there as we do. After what just happened, if I were in office, we would have MEGA influence.



To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (1960)10/10/2001 9:51:34 AM
From: MulhollandDrive  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 14610
 
>I am back to the mode of believing that the U.S. shouldn't be asking any country for anything. We should tell the people who we want to be our friends what are plans are and they should volunteer. We shouldn't even have to ask at this point.<<

I think it is FINALLY hitting home wrt the waffling states.

They are just beginning to realize that the terrorist network is more of a threat to THEM than they are to US.

And I think they would really love us to backpedal, just a "little" to give them more waffle space.

So the choice has to be made. Which side are you on? It's high time we turned into Harry Callahan...

""I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

In a game of high stakes poker, you better have more than luck.

Most excellent rant, btw.



To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (1960)10/10/2001 10:32:07 AM
From: Original Mad Dog  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 14610
 
Outstanding.

One thing I find particularly galling is how they criticize us and call us Satan and decry our immoral cultural influences and our business practices, and then turn around and say that our sanctions policies cause them such great harm.

Well, sanctions are merely a refusal to trade with somebody. If Satan were roaming around the planet, offering his wares, would you want to trade with him? Would you want to do business with him? Would you want his culture exported to your doorstep? Of course not.

So they should be praising our sanctions, and asking us to impose them on every single Muslim country out there, to protect them from our evil.



To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (1960)10/10/2001 12:06:43 PM
From: SmoothSail  Respond to of 14610
 
Nice rant there.

I got the following in an email from someone I barely know - it had been forwarded to her. It's interesting to see what some other people are thinking.

America Is Falling Into An Illuminati Trap

stream of consciousness commentary

The global propoganda arm of the New World Order is doing its job as
expected. Osama bin Ladin has already been tried and convicted as the
mastermind of the September 11 attacks. America will now become embroiled in
a religious war that could engulf the entire Middle East. Who will gain from
this war? What are some of the possible results?

- Osama bin-Ladin has now become the greatest Muslim hero. Don't believe the
lies that the Western press is spreading that he is looked upon as a deviant
and as an outcast by most Muslims. He embodies the fullest ideals of the
concept of Jihad. It does not matter if he is responsible for the attacks or
if he is not. He now stands in battle against what Muslims refer to as The
Great Satan, and 90% of Muslims can do nothing but admire him.

- The House of Saud is now in a Catch-22 situation. Do they support the
American war and risk their kingdom being toppled, or do they try to keep
their distance and acknowledge how illegitimate and shaky their government
is? A very possible result of this war could be the fall of the House of
Saud. They have been corrupted by American luxuries and true Muslims see the
royal family as traitors to Islam. Standard Oil of California (now Chevron)
bought the rights to prospect for oil in Arabia from the House of Saud for a
mere $250,000 in 1933. America has viewed Saudi oil as our oil since that
time, and we have always counted on our Saudi lackeys to always push for
lower prices and higher production during every OPEC meeting. The House of
Saud is an American asset and real Muslims view it as a terrible shame that
their holiest land is controlled and supported by, and even occupied with
troops from, a "Christian" nation.

- The physical British Empire declined in the years after World War II, but
the global elites, since the time of Cecil Rhodes, have understood this
inevitable decline and have turned their attention to creating a brand new
global empire. The Federal Reserve, the Council On Foreign Relations, the
United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, the Trilateral Commission,
the World Trade Organization etc, etc, are all a continuing part of this
march towards a global government.

- Islamic Fundamentalism was supported by the British and American
governments during the Cold War. Bin Ladin was a CIA and British asset. He
personally fought against the Russians in Afghanistan and he was almost
killed several times by Russian shelling. After the Cold War America slowly
backed off of its support for Muslim fundamentalists, but certain members of
the British elite have continued to support, and perhaps even direct it.

- Bin Ladin's direct financial assets and strategic capabilities have been
hugely exaggerated. The entity known as Al-Qaeda is simply the guestbook for
Muslims who entered Peshawar to join the jihad against Russia in
Afghanistan. There is no such thing as a global terrorist organization known
as Al-Qaeda! Bin-Laden is probably not directly, or even secondarily,
responsible, but of course the media is able to trot out "links" that
"prove" Bin-Ladin was involved. These "links" may be real, but Afghanistan
was a haven for many dedicated Muslims who wanted to participate in a jihad,
and many of these rich and powerful fanatics crossed paths in that country
over the past twenty years. These links are far from "proof" or even
"evidence" that Bin-Ladin was responsible for orchestrating and funding the
September 11 attacks.

- The Taliban regime became the focus of the Global Elites anger for doing
at least two things: 1) Destroying the ancient carved stone buddhist
statues, which represented an attack on religious pluralism and tolerance.
2) Prohibiting the growing of poppies for heroin. This was perhaps one of
the few admirable actions of the Taliban regime, but it deprived the
merchant banks of a very important and massive supply of liquid capital.
Drug money is used to prop up the bankrupt global financial system and the
loss of the Afghani raw material represented a major loss of income. When
Afghanistan is liberated will poppy production continue again under the UN?
Of course it will.

- Osama Bin-Ladin is a perfact scapegoat because he is already a well-known
and admitted terrorist, he is connected with the House of Saud, he is
associated with the Taliban and he is capable of starting a jihad among the
majority of Muslims not corrupted and bought by the West.

- A religious war in the Middle East is a goal of the global elites for
several purposes: 1) War is always a quick road to peace. Want a League of
Nations? Start World War I. Want a United Nations? Start World War II. Want
a New World Order? Start a religious war in the Middle East. 2) Jerusalem
must become an international city, controlled by the UN, as a symbol of
tolerance and as a holy place for the three monotheistic faiths. 3) The
Arabs must be kicked off the Temple Mount and a new Jewish Temple must be
built, to be taken over for occult purposes. 4) America's status as the only
super-power must be dissolved. America's strong grip on OPEC, through the
Saudis, must be diminished. Europe has already made agreements for Russian
oil, and so the fall of the House of Saud serves the NWO at the expense of
America.

- Britain pledges to be our friend, and Tony Blair makes heartfelt speeches,
but all of the alleged terrorists entered the United States via London,
Saudi Arabian dissidents are given shelter in Britain, and the
British-dominated New World Order can only gain from what will soon happen.
In the meantime, the British press continues to be the most aggresive
antagonists of Israeli self-preservation, and British elites have proven
ties to Muslim terrorism. By the way, is there a CNN reporter that does not
have a British accent? I thought CNN was an American network.

These are merely the thoughts I have gathered after pondering this subject.
Below are some links to articles that offer important data that has been
ignored or glossed over by the major media:

Dr. Saad Al-Fagih: A dissident Saudi now living in London. He lived in
Afghanistan, understands Saudi politics, and is quite frank in relating the
Muslim view of Bin-Ladin. Here is an interview, and here is the website of
his organization that seeks freedom and democracy in Saudi Arabia. Read
especially the two main articles on the front page. Have you heard these
views in our media? Don't you think that people like Dr. Al-Fagih should be
heard?

Here is his statement of what Al Qaida really is: "Al Qaeda is just a record
for the people who came to Peshawar and moved from there back and forth to
the guest house. And moved back to their country. And if they want to follow
the number, they must be talking about 20, 30 thousand people. Which is
impossible to trace... That record, that documentation was called the record
of Al Qaeda. So that was Al Qaeda. There's nothing sinister about Al Qaeda.
It's not like an organization--like any other terrorist organization or any
other underground group... Al Qaeda is just a record for the people who
came to Peshawar and moved from there back and forth to the guest house. And
moved back to their country. And if they want to follow the number, they
must be talking about 20, 30 thousand people. Which is impossible to trace.
And I think most of those records are in the hands of the Saudi government
anyway, because people used the Saudi airlines, [at] a very much reduced
fare."

"Al Qaida" simply means "The Base." It was the base for Arabs who would sign
up before entering Afghanistan. Please read Dr. Al Fagih's interview above.
It was the base where Arabs would sign up so they could be tracked down if
something happened to them in Afghanistan. There are twenty to thirty
thousand names on the "roster" of Al Qaida, many of then are probably very
prominant names of Saudi Arabians, and very few would even think of
associating themselves with a terrorist organization. The Bush
administration was frantic in their search for a label for Bin Ladin's group
and the best they could do was "The Base." Pathetic. Here are some names for
some very real terrorist organizations, and what they mean in English:

Al-Gama`a al-Islamiyyah: The Islamic Group

Hamas: An acronym for "Harakat -Al-Islamia" or "Islamic Resistance
Movement." Hamas also means courage and bravery in Arabic.

Islamic Jihad: Muslim holy war

Hizballah: The party of God

And of course the most insidious, most well-funded and fanatical of them all
is "The Base."

In a Wall Street Journal article entitled "Saudi Arabian Royal Family Finds
Itself Caught in the Middle of Two Alliances," Dr. Al Fagih is quoted as
saying, "If the regime goes ahead and helps the Americans, it will abandon
the last stroke linking it to Islam. People believe once there is Saudi help
[to the U.S.], and the attack starts, it is totally justified to hit the
regime itself."

Website: Americans Against the Sauduction of Washington

Said K. Aburish: A Palestinian author and journalist also living in London.
Here is an interview. His many books document the West's manipulation of the
Middle East, and they offer a perspective that must be heard if the present
situation is to be properly understood. And Americans stupidly wonder in
horror and amazement, "How can they hate us so much?! What have we done to
deserve this?!" Well, put down the clicker and read a book! Our foreign
policy has been hijacked since Woodrow Wilson and we have been steadily
aiming for our present destination for the past fifty years. This should not
be a surprise.

Executive Intelligence Review: An organization led by the sometimes
brilliant, sometimes ignorant, and sometimes comical, Lyndon LaRouche. One
article on Osama Bin-London's globalist British backers, and another article
on the globalist British control of international terror.

On January 11, 2000, EIR submitted a memorandum to Secretary of State
Madeleine Albright requesting an official investigation into Great Britain's
support of terrorism. This document puts forth the clear evidence that Great
Britain has been a safe haven for known terrorists for many years. To this
day groups like the Islamic Group (Egypt), Al-Jihad (Egypt), Hamas (Israel,
Palestinian Authority), Armed Islamic Group (Algeria, France), Kurdish
Workers Party (Turkey), and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (Sri Lanka)
all continue to maintain official headquarters within Britain, and Britain
has often bent over backwards diplomatically to protect known terrorists
from the justice that was sought by countries such as Egypt, India and
Yemen. According to EIR, the United States has every right, indeed the moral
obligation to its citizens, to place Great Britain on the list of nations
who we officially sanction as sponsors of terrorism. According to EIR:

ALL ROADS LEAD TO LONDON

London's Bridge is Falling Down, a webpage that uncovers London's links with
Islamic Jihad, Hamas and other terrorist organizations, while exploring
reasons for the TWA flight 800 disaster.

Consider the article from a CBS news website entitled "Report: L.A. Target
For Terror." Ahmed Ressam was a terrorist arrested in December of 1999 for
plotting to bomb the LAX airport. Ressam admitted during his trial that he
has close ties with a London resident, who is known to have close ties to
Osama Bin Ladin.

A BBC article, "Algerian suspect 'trained hijackers'" records the arrest of
an Algerian suspect named Lotfi Raissi. This man was a pilot and was
allegedly involved in training at least four of the terrorists who struck on
September 11. Raissi was re-arrested on an international warrant, along with
three other suspects in the UK. Raissi was living in London near Heathrow
International Airport at the time of his arrest.

A Guardian Observer article, "London-based terror chief plotted mayhem in
Europe" speaks of how Djamel Beghal, the leader of a terror group that even
Bin-Ladin admired, was based in London until September of last year. The
article says, "US investigators now believe that the attacks on the World
Trade Centre and the Pentagon were planned in Germany using up to 30 people,
with individuals who lived or once lived in Britain playing a crucial role."

The Guardian Observer also published an article on its website that
documented links between two London-based banks and a Sudanese bank, that
were involved in funding Bin-Ladin, but this article has disappeared.

Another article also documents Bin-Ladin's money supply, allegedly funneled
through the Capital Trust Bank that is based in New York and London, a bank
owned by Mohammad Hussein Al-Amoudi, whose lawyer is Vernon Jordan.

Esquire magazine published an exposé of Bin-Ladin in 1999, and they have
re-posted it on their website. On the first page of this article it
documents how Bin-Ladin was approached by the journalists interested in
getting the interview,

"That was the very reason I wanted to interview him, and the reason getting
such an interview would not be a simple process. His public-relations
apparatus is a sophisticated and complex network of agents and
intermediaries. The first discussions took place in the old, ornate
Jefferson Hotel in Washington. A couple of ABC News producers, Chris Isham
and Len Tepper, brought me to meet with a trusted contact who had good
connections among Islamic fundamentalists. Soon he sent word back: We would
have to travel to London and meet with some of bin Laden's people. Bin
Laden, it seems, has people all over. Two meetings, both in Tudor-style
homes a half hour's drive from central London. We removed our shoes, drank
cider and water, and made our intentions toward bin Laden known. We told his
people we would raise the issues that concerned him, and "tell his side" and
enough about his background so people would get a broader understanding of
him."

A CNN article mentions a London associate of Bin-Ladin, who purchased and
shipped to him a state of the art satellite telephone. His associate, Khaled
al-Fawwaz, who was the recipient of the majority of calls from Bin-Ladin in
Aghanistan, is now in custody in England.

The Christian Science Monitor published an article, available here, on the
intrigues surrounding England's Finsbury Park Mosque. Abu Hamza is the
senior cleric of this north London mosque, and it held an "Islamic camp"
during Christmas to train young British Muslims in "military training for
brothers, self-development skills, martial arts, map reading, etc." Soon
after, the Yemeni government arrested five Muslim youths who were in Yemen
on British passports, on suspicion of plotting to commit terrorism. One of
these youths was a step-son of Abu Hamza. Here is an article on Abu Hamza,
his mosque and his group, and here is another article by the ADL. The latter
article mentions that, "In addition to his sermons, Abu Hamza is believed to
run weekend military training camps for Islamic youth in Britain that are
staffed by former British army officers." Apparently, in a rather startling
sequence of events, the President of Yemen asked the government of Britain
to hand over Abu Hamza so that he could be tried as a terrorist in Yemen,
but Britain refused. So who's fighting terrorism here!? Another article
documents Abu Hamza's long-overdue arrest by Britain's crack "anti-terror
squad" (no doubt!), but he was detained only for a few days and later
released.

Osama Bin Ladin is a tool of the global elites who is being used to
establish the New World Order. These global elites, also known
affectionately as the Illuminati, are the rulers of the shadow governments
of the United States and Britain. They are a collection of close-knit royal
families, banking families and political dynasties, with a major base of
power being the city of London financial district, from where the major
commodities of oil, gold, diamonds, weapons and drugs are controlled and
dispensed throughout the world.

These global elites have a vast intelligence network that operates through,
over and above the American CIA, the British MI6 and the Israeli Mossad.
They have been the major supporters of violent Islamic Fundamentalism from
the very beginning, and they continue to manipulate these violent religious
fanatics for their own ends.

The events of September 11 were engineered by these global elites, and to
cover their rear ends they have betrayed their expendable asset, Osama Bin
Ladin. They know everything about him, and all of the connections that he
has all over the world, and they are very easily able to frame him for the
terrible crimes they have orchestrated. Consider now the way in which our
British "friends" are helping us to solve this crime:

(Does Britain have a history of betraying expendable agents? Here is one
man's recent story.)

On Thursday, October 4, Tony Blair, in an address to Members of the British
Parliament stated, "We have absolutely no doubt that Bin Laden and his
network were responsible for the attacks." The British PM said that the
evidence that had been collected was "overwhelming," but that a great deal
of it could not be released because it might compromise the security of the
agents who had gathered it ( Yeah, it wouldn't be prudent). The major media
trotted right out with this shameless drivel through the BBC, The Washington
Post and CNN, among others.

On October 5, Time.com published a short report on Mohammed Atta, the
alleged ringleader of the hijackers. Here is an excerpt,

"Britain on Thursday released a document setting out the basis for a case
against Al Qaida for the September 11 attack, which indicates, among other
things, that some of the hijackers had met with Al Qaida officials, and that
Bin Laden had warned in the days before the attack that he was about to
launch a major attack on America. The British document, based on telephone
intercepts and information gleaned from interrogations in Europe since the
attacks in New York and Washington, also reveals that orders were sent to a
number of the network's key operatives to return to Afghanistan by September
10.

"Al Qaida's often diffuse structures are designed specifically to avoid
leaving behind trails of command responsibility detectable to investigators
probing specific attacks. Proving that Atta and others had spent time at Al
Qaida camps in Afghanistan and had met with al-Zawahiri would therefore
constitute a major breakthrough in the investigation."

So on the one hand we are told that Al Qaida is a shadowy paranoid group
dedicated to preserving its anonymity, but on the other hand we now have a
"major breakthrough" by being able to link Atta with Al Qaida. Of course all
hard-core proof cannot be offered to the press because it would compromise
the safety of agents.

Here is an article that critically analyzes the 70-point "evidence document"
that has been released by the British government indicting Bin Ladin and Al
Qaida. The writer shows that only nine of these seventy points relate
directly to the events of September 11, and that all of the evidence is weak
and circumstancial. The document itself even begins with the disclaimer that
"This document does not purport to provide a prosecutable case against Osama
Bin Laden in a court of law. Intelligence often cannot be used evidentially,
due both to the strict rules of admissibility and the need to protect the
safety of sources. But on the basis of all the information available Her
Majesty's Government is confident of its conclusions as expressed in this
document."

Not enough to convict in a court of law, but enough to render judgment and
go to war?!

And why is the British government taking the lead in investigating an attack
that occurred on American soil? Why do they suddenly appear to have all the
evidence and all the answers, with a tear-jerking, supportive and noble
speech of solidarity and brotherhood from Tony Blair to boot?

Bin Ladin has always been an agent of British Intelligence. After America
retaliated for the bombing of the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania
by launching cruise missiles at Bin Ladin's bases in Afghanistan he
reassured Britain, through the London-based Al Quds Al Arabi daily newpaper,
that he was "only interested in hitting the U.S. and Israel." Afterwards,
Bin Ladin's London-based spokesman, Omar Bakri, re-emphasized to the
London-based Arabic daily Al Sharq Al Awsat, that "we have a covenant of
peace with the British government." Well, for their betrayal the British
must realize that Bin Ladin's covenant of peace with them has expired.

Yes, Bin Ladin was a British/NWO pawn, and his usefulness will be complete
when he is punished for the September 11 atrocities.

And the true masterminds run free...

--

October 8,

In a Newsmax.com article it was shown that a prominant Russian economic
expert predicted that a major disaster would soon strike the United States.
Dr. Tatyana Koryagina, a senior research fellow in the Institute of
Macroeconomic Researches subordinated to the Russian Ministry of Economic
Development, and reportedly close to President Putin’s inner circle, stated
in a July 12 interview in Pravda:

"The U.S. has been chosen as the object of financial attack because the
financial center of the planet is located there. The effect will be maximal.
The strike waves of economic crisis will spread over the planet instantly,
and will remind us of the blast of a huge nuclear bomb."

Dr. Koryagina was reached after the September 11 disasters and she
commented:

"As a result [of the attacks] a significant part of the world financial
network was paralyzed. This strike was aimed at destabilization and
destruction of America and [in domino fashion] all the countries making
countless billions of dollars."

The article continues and states:

"Who is behind these strikes? Koryagina claims the U.S. is painting a false
picture. She said the operation was not the work of 19 terrorists but a
larger group seeking to reshape the world. She claimed a group of extremely
powerful private persons, with total assets of about $300 trillion, intends
to legalize its power and to become the new world government. The Sept. 11
strikes showed that this group is afraid of nothing -- human lives have zero
value for them."

Two additional questions regarding the September 11 attacks:

1. The media has created an uproar about the supposed huge failure of
American intelligence agencies in preventing the attacks. But who should be
the nation held responsible here? Bin Ladin's Western base of operations was
in Great Britain, and as related above, he had many contacts and operatives
living in the city of London itself. Where was British Intelligence during
the months and years of planning for these attacks? Where the hell was James
Bond? If the attacks were done without British knowledge, then their failure
is inexcusable, because the planning was done in their very living room. The
only other option is that British Intelligence did not fail, and that MI-6
is another weapon in the elites war for world domination.

2. In the days after the attacks the media was able to fan the flames of
knee-jerk anti-Muslim hatred by pointing out the fact that a number of
transactions such as puts and short selling was done in the financial
markets, by a number of shadowy investors, with the goal of benefitting from
a major financial markets crash, especially in airline stocks. Many people
were getting rich and benefitting from the American suffering. However, in
the weeks since, this subject seems to have disappeared from the list of
"talking points" that are covered each evening in the network news. My hunch
is that it was not a bunch of shadowy fugitives from justice that benefitted
from the disaster, but rather the group mentioned by Dr. Koryagina above,
the "extremely private persons," who already have assets over and above $300
trillion. Will the media ever provide the public with a list of the
transactions and the persons involved in them, who benefitted from the
disasters? Well, it should be obvious that they know better than to do that.

www.redmoonrising.com

I welcome any comments or suggestions to help better understand the
situation we are in.
Thank you, and God bless America,

Peter Goodgame
pgoodgame@hawaii.rr.com