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Politics : High Tolerance Plasticity -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: aerosappy who wrote (9313)	10/10/2001 5:25:24 PM
From: stockman_scott	Respond to of 23153

<<However, the courts and the liberals have expanded too many of our Constitutional guarantees to non-citizens -- many of whom reside in the United States illegally or on expired student visas. Those persons are not entitled to the same protections that naturalized and native-born Americans are due.>> SO TRUE....I don't mind giving up some Civil Liberties to prevent future terrorist acts....I don't see a problem with all the provisions in the current bill that Mr. Feingold is trying to hold up -- he won't be successful though. Most likely we'll get a compromise version from both The House and The Senate...They need to give passing this bill HIGH PRIORITY -- like work non-stop until its passed...We are on the highest state of alert and still have hundreds of 'sleepers' in this country that we are trying to hunt down. Lets not fool around. We already give our citizens more civil liberties than any other country in the world...I want the main principles in the Constitution protected BUT lets not go overboard. These are EXTRAordinary times and Congress has to speed things up -- and provide appropriate oversite. Just my views. Regards, Scott

To: aerosappy who wrote (9313)	10/10/2001 5:35:10 PM
From: kodiak_bull	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23153

Aero, I don't particularly like that distinction when it comes to search and seizure. Ahmed, an Egyptian, comes to MIT to study English literature (Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, if you must know). Ahmed shares an apartment with 3 others, 2 U.S. citizens and one green card holder from Brazil. Are you proposing that the police now have a blank check to enter the property any time without warrant, reasonable cause, etc.? I think, having accepted a person pursuant to terms of a specific invitation (student visa for the purpose of studying English lit and not working, and promising to obey all laws of the USA), we should be morally and legally bound to treat that person decently. I don't think automatic search is a good idea; in fact it sounds a little like East Germany to me. Otoh, I think a visitor who is here illegally can be deported on the spot. Right after a simple fact finding hearing--does s/he have a valid visa, if not, INS officers escort him to the airport and put him on a plane for the Sudan, no questions asked. Her/his stuff? Maybe he can call the landlord or a pal from Logan and get it taken care of. To me, there is no necessary grant of 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances, multiple court appearances for someone, a GUEST by Crikey, who has come and violated the terms of GUEST-hood. Why this difference? Because a U.S. citizen is here, 99% of the time involuntarily (hey, dude, like, I was born here and I was, like, not together enough to, like, apply for a passport, dude), but a foreigner is not only here by absolute choice, but after coming to a U.S. Consulate abroad and, more or less, begging to come. Here's an example. Hitchhikers. You can give family members or neighbors a ride in your car and that's fine. You should treat them pretty well, even politely. If you have a disagreement about something you should probably change the subject. You can also pick up a hitchhiker, someone who has come to your "automobile consulate" and "begged" for a ride, on certain implied terms. If he behaves, you have no extra right to rifle through his knapsack, see what he's carrying. On the other hand, if he begins to talk strange or he smells bad or he begins to tell you where you're going to drive him, you have every right to pull over on the side of I-5 and tell him to get the %$## out. No questions, no explanations, just get the %$#@# out. Kb