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Politics : High Tolerance Plasticity -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: kodiak_bull who wrote (9341)	10/11/2001 2:02:49 AM
From: kodiak_bull	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23153

Here's a note from a friend of mine. I'll call him "John" for these purposes, even though that's his real name. The problem with John is not that he's too cheap to join SI, it's that he wasn't lucky enough to have someone "join him up" for free, as was my case: "I've been reading with interest the various message board proposals for catching bad guys before they can do bad things, nationwide ID's, and so forth, and I am sympathetic. Truly. But I would like to toss in a couple of thoughts for your consideration: First, bad guys study a society over years and learn its flaws, sometimes by trial and error. Often complex ID systems just run up the price of counterfeit ID's. Naza Germany and the USSR had the tightest internal security ever seen on Earth, yet resistance groups and spies learned how to function and survive - and sabotage anything they wanted to sabotage. Read A Man Called Intrepid by William Stevenson for some insights. Flawless ID systems for the masses have never worked, and never will. That isn't to say we don't need better immigration controls -- clearly we do. Second, consider what a future Bill Clinton might do with greatly enhanced surveillance and liberty-invading powers... the mind boggles! Bush is a decent and benign man, but every new proposed law should be put to the Clinton test. Third, when intelligence is gathered about private citizens it is always available, quietly and under the table, in exchange for some present or future consideration, by the powerful and wealthy. Government personnel can be corrupted as easily -- perhaps more easily -- than anyone else. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Always. Databases will be built, CD-R's (and soon DVD-R's) will be burned... and privacy and liberty will be at greater and greater risk. Fourth, one of the greatest problems we have in this country is the widespread inability for honest, law abiding, well-trained citizens to be prepared to defend themselves without be arrested, harassed, sued into oblivion, subjected to ridiculously complex regulations, etc. The pro-gun lobby wants everyone to be able to carry any weapon they want. The anti-gun lobby doesn't want anyone to be able to have anything, period. The optimal solution is somewhere in between... ...A tentative example: Of the entire population, probably only a few percent of the people have the temperament and intelligence to carry a concealed self-defense weapon routinely and never abuse the privilege. Let's call them citizen-deputies (any name will do). They are checked out by the local police and FBI. They pass reasonable 'common-sense' tests. They are reasonably trained. They carry elaborate ID's. They may not consume any alcohol while carrying. They do not need 44 magnums. In fact, they start out with two-shot 22 derringers. Nobody goes out looking for trouble with a 22 derringer! It's really more of a 'live' character test.... But they can carry them anywhere that police can. ...After two years with a clean record of non-use (or justified use), they graduate to senior citizen-deputies and carry a small 5- or 6-round 38 revolver. To be legal, each bullet has ID 'taggets' (as used in explosives) inside. These are linked to your name. The guns also have a small pinhole camera, memory chip, and battery under the barrel to record (say) two five-seconds loops of audio/video when the gun is removed from its holster or case. The first loop stops when the first round is fired, the second loop stops when the second round is fired. A bright infrared LED provides illumination for a night scene. The video proves self-defense... or it doesn't. If the police find justification, they get to keep their carry privileges. If sued they are defended by the government, just as a deputy would be. Bottom line: What if three or four citizen-deputies had been on those WTC flights? Its food for thought. Or we can just end up with 10% of the population consisting of police, sheriffs, FBI, etc., "watching over" the other 90% of us? Wiretaps, tiny cameras, and bugs everywhere, like "1984" -- just a few years later. It's not a pretty picture. Rumsfeld spoke this evening and said something quite profound, more or less, that: "This is not about a problem with America, its about a problem with foreign nations." Let's fix the problem. And its not us! -John"

To: kodiak_bull who wrote (9341)	10/11/2001 3:25:37 AM
From: stockman_scott	Respond to of 23153

Osama's EndGame... time.com

To: kodiak_bull who wrote (9341)	10/11/2001 11:36:55 AM
From: Gottfried	Respond to of 23153

kb, re illegal aliens: they should not be tolerated here, but that's a tall order because there are millions - most harmless. After reading the German newsmag "Der Spiegel" I find the Germans' experience mirrors ours in many ways: inept law enforcement, lax bend-over-backwards enforcement of immigration rules etc. They even have over a hundred known Islamic preachers of hate against the west, some of whom held public meetings, protected by the veil of 'religion'. A known extremist cannot be extradited to Egypt, where he is wanted for murder, because German law prohibits it when the penalty might be a death sentence. Many things are changing in Germany, too. I know this thread has German speakers, so here's the link spiegel.de This mag is sort of like "Time". Gottfried

To: kodiak_bull who wrote (9341)	10/11/2001 4:23:31 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23153

Kodiak, I want to get off the deportment list. I thought it might help if I put you in touch with a partner for your big brother card. gg. dailynews.yahoo.com <<ORLANDO, Fla. (Reuters) - Scott McNealy, chairman and CEO of Sun Microsystems Inc. (Nasdaq:SUNW - news), said Thursday his long-held belief the United States needs a national identity system has gained a lot of traction since the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon (news - web sites). ``This is more than a sea change,'' McNealy said to reporters at an industry conference in Orlando. ``I have not spoken to one person who hasn't flipped a switch to say, 'You're darn right, I want to know who's getting on a plane with me.''' Sun developed the Java computer platform, which could someday provide the language needed for a smart-card identification system to deal with computers at airports, shopping malls, research facilities and other locations where McNealy said anonymity could prove dangerous. ``Absolute anonymity breeds absolute irresponsibility,'' he said. ``We need a thumbprint Java card in the hand of everybody in the country.'' Civil libertarians have heaped scorn on McNealy, but he dismissed their concerns. ``I'm tired of the outrage. If you get on a plane, I want to know who you are. If you rent a crop duster, I want to know who you are,'' he said. McNealy said it would be the job of Congress to decide when people can be anonymous and when they cannot. He warned that the United States faces ``a huge efficiency tax'' for security if it does not adopt a simple system of identification. ``Hiring 50 humans isn't going to solve that problem,'' he said. McNealy appeared at a symposium sponsored by Gartner, the high-tech consulting and analysis firm. McNealy also responded to remarks made at the conference the previous day by Steve Ballmer, chief executive of Microsoft Corp. (Nasdaq:MSFT - news) Ballmer said Sun's Liberty Alliance Project, an identity authentication and authorization service meant to speed on-line transactions, ``has absolutely no probability of mattering to the world.'' Microsoft will compete with a similar service called Passport. Microsoft will go it alone on its service, while Sun is working with dozens of companies from eBay Inc. (Nasdaq:EBAY - news) to General Motors Corp. (NYSE:GM - news) McNealy said Thursday the number of partners could grow into the thousands. He said the strength of his system was that each partner would maintain its own customer list and could arrange data sharing with one another on their own terms. ``Hertz (NYSE:HRZ - news) and United Airlines (NYSE:UAL - news) can work out their own deal instead of going to Microsoft and saying 'How much do we have to pay you?''' McNealy said. Microsoft believes its customer base of 120 million will make it dominant in the field. Sun is betting the flexibility of its system will make it more appealing to merchants. >> Why not require passports for all air travel, including domestic? Ed