Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: thames_sider who wrote (31913)	10/11/2001 12:31:52 PM
From: average joe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

It must be hard to think of how empire was when Kipling was around. Tony just does not cut a very convincing figure of hope for a bright future. Is your Island still sinking, water rising, hope diminishing? I'm sure your Yobs will come to the rescue of British ideals. Fortunately for Canada we've recently raised our immigration standards and are only taking eastern Europeans. hardboiled.org

To: thames_sider who wrote (31913)	10/11/2001 1:01:15 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Someone's response to that poem. I think there is some truth expressed in both of these poems. European empire building caused both great good and great harm to the people in the areas that became part of the empires boondocksnet.com The Brown Man's Burden By Henry Labouchère or John Hollingshead Truth (London); reprinted in Literary Digest 18 (Feb. 25, 1899). Pile on the brown man's burden To gratify your greed; Go, clear away the "niggers" Who progress would impede; Be very stern, for truly 'Tis useless to be mild With new-caught, sullen peoples, Half devil and half child. Pile on the brown man's burden; And, if ye rouse his hate, Meet his old-fashioned reasons With Maxims up to date. With shells and dumdum bullets A hundred times made plain The brown man's loss must ever Imply the white man's gain. Pile on the brown man's burden, compel him to be free; Let all your manifestoes Reek with philanthropy. And if with heathen folly He dares your will dispute, Then, in the name of freedom, Don't hesitate to shoot. Pile on the brown man's burden, And if his cry be sore, That surely need not irk you-- Ye've driven slaves before. Seize on his ports and pastures, The fields his people tread; Go make from them your living, And mark them with his dead. Pile on the brown man's burden, Nor do not deem it hard If you should earn the rancor Of those ye yearn to guard. The screaming of your Eagle Will drown the victim's sob-- Go on through fire and slaughter. There's dollars in the job. Pile on the brown man's burden, And through the world proclaim That ye are Freedom's agent-- There's no more paying game! And, should your own past history Straight in your teeth be thrown, Retort that independence Is good for whites alone. Pile on the brown man's burden, With equity have done; Weak, antiquated scruples Their squeamish course have run, And, though 'tis freedom's banner You're waving in the van, Reserve for home consumption The sacred "rights of man"! And if by chance ye falter, Or lag along the course, If, as the blood flows freely, Ye feel some slight remorse, Hie ye to Rudyard Kipling, Imperialism's prop, And bid him, for your comfort, Turn on his jingo stop. This poem was usually attributed to Labouchère, who edited Truth, the magazine in which it first appeared. When it printed the poem on February 23, City and State noted that "it is understood" that the author was John Hollingshead, a prominent English theater manager and contributor to Punch and other magazines.

To: thames_sider who wrote (31913)	10/11/2001 1:33:00 PM
From: J. C. Dithers	Respond to of 82486

Thank you for Kipling, T.S. There is much to learn from that. Namely, how different the human perspective was a century or more ago ago. Earlier, Abraham Lincoln said categorically that the Negro could never be the white man's intellectual equal. Thomas Jefferson asserted that the Negro could never become truly civilized. Jefferson held out only a slighter hope that the Native American might one day in the distant future become civilized. These were among the best minds that the world had produced until then, and among the most noble and honorable. Their brains honestly interpreted what they could see with their eyes, hear with their ears, and feel in their hearts. It is so fashionable today to indulge in criticism of historical personages, with virtually nary a pause to try to imagine the way the world appeared to them at the time. It's highly doubtful (to say the least!) that any opinions expressed on this thread will endure for a hundred years. But it is interesting to speculate how they might be looked upon by people with a century's worth of additional history and perspective. Thanks for including the critical interpretation. My feeling for poetry is so primitive that I always need independent corroboration that I am understanding it properly. (BTW, I have no peer when it comes to Anglophilia! Perhaps this is because I grew up during World War II and was made to sing, "There'll Always Be an England" in school. I am still trying to get with the current program in understanding why this was so wrong and bad for me). JC