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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ratan lal who wrote (4420)	10/11/2001 7:46:47 PM
From: IQBAL LATIF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I will beg to differ.. I think most of these factors are exaggerated accounts, we in that region live very peacefully, my mother still watches every Indian programme, my whole country is crazy about Indian movies, we have some rather too many problems but I assure you that when we see a Indian in Pakistan he is highly respected, the media can say anything, the fact is that we in sub-continent will never annihilate each other like the Jews were annihilated by Germans, we will not bomb each other despite of what press may say, and we will one day come out clean from all this, the religious hatreds I admit are there but we have big hearts, when any Indian comes to Islamabad he is treated as a star likewise us when we go to India, it is our second home, one day we will rationalise, one day we will love and the whole world will see, India annexations or Pakistani intrusions all have nothing in common, we in our three wars but have protected our civilians, we have never bombed schools and we have protected our POWS. We have history and tradition and love that go beyond this temporary hatred that CNN and global media depicts. Scratch the surface a bit and you find the truth. In partition we know millions were killed but million and scores were saved too by Hindus and Muslims alike in each side of the border.After my country my region i.e. sub-continent comes first and than anything else even Arabs or Muslims. Amen

To: ratan lal who wrote (4420)	10/11/2001 9:12:08 PM
From: IQBAL LATIF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<me pissing in your coke........ > Lets make new bridges ratanlal and cross this burning river of hatred together. Has hatred alone ,small petty hatred, not let Osama do what he does. Hates makes people blind and lose objectivity. Lets illumine our hearts, lets go beyond caste, creed and religious hatred and create a new society based on human love where we share our dreams and our future together. Pissing on each other is animals job, those who piss in their or others food are not humans. People of India and Pakistan are one, they belong to same stock and one day you will realise it. That is my dream ratan lal, whatever you can say, you can, but one day we will pass this great test of hatred. I will only give rose water to my any Indian friend and will love him to death, if even he pisses in my coke and I see it also. One day India and Pakistan will be friends and very soon, I don't share your pessimism and single point agenda to show that we are 'only born to piss in each other cokes and spit in each other shoes.' Far beyond the wildest imaginations of Indian strategist, the strategic coup of Pakistan to fight this battle against terror as a front line state and on the front foot is I can understand a very indigestible reality to people who thought Pakistan was on its last rites on 11th sept post attacks. The whole emphasis that terror in NYC to be equated to terror in Kashmir and Afghanistan-Pakistan axis to be dealt together was a doomed Indian diplomatic effort from hour 1 of the NYC tragedy. I can understand the basic reason why so many are so badly pissed off and they like to drink this hatred full piss-infested coke so hard. I condemn this terrorism against innocent Hindus but also demand the withdrawal of 600,000 Indian forces from Kashmir on 'flower throwing duties' in Kashmir. For me a drop of blood of Hindu or a Muslim or a Jew or a Christian has same significance. I don't take a broad brush and paint people right, left and centre. Broad painting is poor act and agenda oriented approach even worst. Pakistan past sins should be washed with its new strategy that has made every one who is friend of humanity proud. To stir trouble in the alliance where US soldiers are in Pakistan ready to take off is poor exercise to portray a sincere effort as slanted. What is US alliance today it is US/UK and Pakistan, who else is putting its life or sticking its neck out, even NATO is quiet. Let me tell you what a French General told me that history will record that an ordinary Pakistani general saved humanity from a major clash of civilisations. IF Pakistan would have made a wrong judgment, it would have been taken out but the consequence would be terrible for Pakistan and the region, a fragmented broken 130 m plus Muslims would create a nightmare for India and Iran imagine 25 million refugees streaming out of Pakistan into Iran and India looking for shelter. The reason we are not being hammered is not diplomacy, because contrary to the media and our enemy disinformation the US found out that Pakistan is not in so much in bed as it was made to be, may be once in year screw but nothing more it is not every night affair that solidly put US weight in Pakistan favour. I want to be honest with you that India even if she wanted could not have bombed Afghanistan from its bases or provided what Pakistan has provided, being a Muslim nation the other Muslim nations are quiet otherwise with India in front that would be a major problem for US, and pitting US against Pakistan makes no sense at all. Indian has been a traditional USSR ally in the region from 1947 adopting its socialist politics importing its arms whereas Pakistan from 1947 decided to side with USA. This is the reason that US went for Pakistan and not India nothing more US army feels more comfortable with Pakistani counterparts, have worked on lot of deals together. This is the ground reality rest of it is propaganda but like yesterday Times of India report on General Mehmud the whole thing is nothing but dirty tricks to save face and yellow journalism of highest order. Pakistan struck a balance between the two mutually inimical choices as best as it could in circumstances of unparalleled gravity. It opted for siding with America without alienating the Taliban. To his Pakistani critics, Musharraf's loud response was 'Pakistan comes first, and everything else afterwards.' He spoke of 'some religious scholars' as 'inclined to take emotional decisions' and reminded them of Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) hijrat from Makkah to Madina in the face of the challenge from the Kuffar (dissenters) of Makkah. That was strategy at the highest level, enabling the Muslims to garner their forces and conquer Makkah eight years later. Even greater than the risk of incurring the wrath of the jehadis within Pakistan, were the 'designs of our neighbouring country' — India. Without hesitation, India offered 'all' their facilities, 'all' their bases and their logistical support to America gratuitously to upstage Pakistan. India's grand design was to have Pakistan declared a 'terrorist' state, put it on the wrong side of the US and thus harm its "strategic assets"...' India might have been straining on to join forces with America against the Taliban to topple their government and have it replaced by an anti-Pakistan regime. Musharraf's two-word message to India was 'Lay off'. Pakistan Armed Forces and every Pakistani citizen, he said, was 'ready to offer any sacrifice in order to defend Pakistan and secure its strategic assets...' In practical terms, its conventional and nuclear-missile structures. Kahuta and the strategic structures around would almost certainly have been the target of a joint US-India invasion of Afghanistan. In an extreme contingency like that, Pakistan could do no better than it did by unhesitatingly choosing to stay on the right side of the world community. It was practical politics and diplomacy, at its best, for the slightest hesitation on Pakistan's part would have given India its best chance to snatch the initiative and isolate Pakistan. Pakistan's initiative earned it America's instant gratitude and appreciation. Both President Bush and Secretary of State Colin Powell extended their personal thanks and compliments to President Musharraf. For the first time since 1989 in the aftermath of the American displeasure over Pakistan's refusal to roll back its nuclear programme, and the imposition of sanctions under the Pressler Law, no American president had expressed such cordiality and goodwill for his Pakistani counterpart. A most welcome development, even if against the gruesome background of the disaster that shook the world on 11 September. President Bush's personal confidence, along with the Administration's, in President Musharraf's dramatic emergence as a strong and stable leader remained unshaken until about the last week of September. At that point, some re-thinking appeared to have crept into their earlier assessment and perception. On September 24, while talking to reporters at the White House, Bush said he had 'consulted' with America's allies to make sure that President Musharraf's government remained stable. He went on to add (and I quote): "We have also talked to our other friends about how to make sure that Musharraf's presidency is a stable presidency in that part of the world."

To: ratan lal who wrote (4420)	10/11/2001 10:09:55 PM
From: kumar	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

old joke, no fun. there have been variations over time. BTW, "pakiland", IMO is not appropriate. The nation is Pakistan. cheers, kumar

To: ratan lal who wrote (4420)	10/11/2001 10:32:17 PM
From: Frederick Langford	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

India and pakiland will never be at peace just like Israel and Palestine will never be at peace. I do not agree with you at all. Pakistanis, Indians, Muslim and Jew and BTW Protestants and Catholics as well, live and work side by side in America. The ingredient that allows this in our strong and unique country, is our adherence to the separation of church and state. Because of this single act, America asks, what can you contribute? Not, how do you pray? Fred