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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (6715)	10/13/2001 1:37:39 PM
From: Yaacov	Respond to of 23908

I agree with you on this occasion! I don't think Russia really had to do with helping Bin Laden! Would US nuke Afganistan? I think if there is a massive terroristic attmept of the kind, US will nuke both Afghansitan and Iraq! Limited stirkes, small tactical war heads, but it will nuke Afghans! Now your friend Mulah Omar maybe to stupid to understand that! Maybe you can explain to him?

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (6715)	10/13/2001 2:30:41 PM
From: goldsnow	Respond to of 23908

). Though ruthless fighters, the Moors were very just. ... From the second half of the eighth century to the end of the eleventh century Jewish life flourished while contributing greatly to scholarship. A translating program was established in Toledo, using Jews as interpreters. There they translated the Arabic books into romance languages, as well as Greek and Hebrew texts into Arabic. This included many major works of Greek science and philosophy. Jews studied and contributed to mathematics, medicine, botany, geography, poetry, and philosophy. It was at this time that the study of Medicine expanded to produce a large number of exceptional Jewish physicians. Islam had its sway over Jewish cultural life too. In literature, and the arts, the Muslim influence on the Jews is enormous. Though written in non-Islamic language and script, medieval Hebrew poetry, and much of the prose literature, belong to the same cultural world as Arabic and other literatures of Islam (Lewis 81 sephardichouse.org

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (6715)	10/13/2001 2:38:00 PM
From: goldsnow	Respond to of 23908

Abd-er-Rahman III became Sultan in 912. (In 929 he assumed the title Kaliph.) He re-united Moorish Spain and carried war to the northern barbarians. In 920 he put the garrison of Muez to the sword and in 923 he entered Pamplona and destroyed its cathedral. By 1010 anarchy had returned to Andalusia. Mass-murder, looting and assassination became common-place, Cordova was wrecked and palace after palace was ravaged by the Berbers. Medinah Ez-Zahra was reduced to a heap of blackened stones, its garrison put to the sword and the mosque desecrated as the men, (among them 60 promising scholars) women and children sheltering therein were butchered. Some 20 or so independent city-states came into existence. Some supported the arts: Mo'tamid of Seville not only collected books but the heads of his enemies. Andalusia was therefore easy picking for a new Berber invasion of the Almoravids, a puritan Muslim sect from Morocco. The Jews and Christians suffered the intolerance of the Almoravids: they were cruelly persecuted, massacred or else transported. yahoodi.com PS And Arab-Berber World was never the same from that point-on, right?

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (6715)	10/13/2001 3:08:26 PM
From: goldsnow	Respond to of 23908

The first major Ottoman war, the Crimean War (1854-1856), came with Russia. Like so many of the later conflicts with Europe, this one was initiated not by the Ottomans, but by the Europeans. Russia was primarily interested in territory. Throughout the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, Russia had slowly been annexing Muslim states in Central Asia. By 1854, Russia found itself near the banks of the Black Sea. Anxious to annex territories in Eastern Europe, particularly the Ottoman provinces of Moldavia and Walachia (now in modern day Czechoslovakia), the Russians went to war with the Ottomans on the flimsiest of pretexts: the Ottomans had granted Catholic France the right to protect Christian sites in the Holy Land (which the Ottomans controlled) rather than Orthodox Russia. That, according to the Russians, justified going to war with the Ottomans. This war is unique in Ottoman history in that the outcome wasn't heavily influenced by the Ottomans themselves. The war soon became a European war when Britain and France allied with the Ottomans in order to protect their lucrative trade interests in the region. The war ended badly for the Russians, and the Paris peace of 1856 was unfavorable to them. In textbooks, the Crimean War is presented entirely from the perspective of the Europeans, for it brought home the fact that more European powers were willing to overthrow the old order than to maintain it. It had, though, important consequences for the Ottoman Empire, as well. From this point onwards, the Ottoman Empire saw itself as being heavily controlled by Europeans wsu.edu:8080/~dee/OTTOMAN/EUROPE.HTM

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (6715)	10/13/2001 4:27:43 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23908

That's nonsense... and you know it! It doesn't fit Gustave... it doesn't fit in with the Russians either... They COULD have used nukes back in the 1980s were it not for the threat of a retaliation by the US, or just the threat of their becoming even more of a pariah nation. And don't think that some of our more hawkish elements aren't above using nukes either... Goldwater advocated the use of nukes during Vietnam, just as MacArthur did the same in Korea. And there's no doubt the Russians have their ultra hawks as well. And btw, I don't buy your scenario where the Russians knocked off Masoud.. It makes MORE sense that OBL realized that in response to the WTC attack, he knew the US would attempt to use the N. Alliance, so if he assasinated him, the NA would be too disoriented and off balance to be utilized against the Taleban. But I doubt he saw the US placing as much pressure on the Pakistanis, or even the US and Russia joining up in an alliance against he and network. Or he figured that China would step in and prevent the other two powers from taking any direct action (the economic agreements that the Taleban signed with China literally hours before the attack). Nope... I tend to believe that Bin Laden had Masoud killed, and was also betting heavily on being able to successfully generate a "jihad" by these attacks and that the US would not have been able to develop a concerted response until next year. And what the world needs to face is the American people are p*ssed off in a way that hasn't been seen since WWII.. And they need to face the fact that, without the US economy remaining stable, a global depression faces the entire world. And nobody, but OBL and his gang, truly desire such an outcome. But such a result is quite possible, and that's probably making it much easier for the US to twist some arms politically. Hawk