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Strategies & Market Trends : Gorilla and King Portfolio Candidates -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Thomas Mercer-Hursh who wrote (47866)10/13/2001 8:48:53 PM
From: Pirah Naman  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 54805
 
However, this doesn't mean that we can't take a candidate method, roll back the clock 5 years, apply it to a test company as it was then, and then roll the clock forward, repeating the test once a year or so, and see how the sequence of valuations corresponded to the actual history. Given the forum, we would want to do this for several gorillas of different types and then we would want to do it for other one-time candidate gorillas which obviously haven't made it. We would see how the analysis made the companies look in pre-bubble, more "normal" times and how the company was changed in appearance during the bubble. We would ask ourselves in this hindsight analysis whether we would have received the kind of buy or sell signals at appropriate times and we could model what responding to those signals would have meant to our investment in comparison with holding all the way through.

Forget gorillas for the moment. Most valuation methods have already been tested in real time, with real money. If you want to do backtesting, I think that is great - I'm always in favor of more information. But do acknowledge that at least a few successful investors (Buffett has given speeches naming some of the prominent ones) and even nobodies such as myself have been using these methods for years. Now you can choose to argue that any benefits gained by this could be coincidence. But if you do, acknowledge that the same can be argued for whatever benefits you have seen from any methods you have used.

Now if you are of the belief that Gorillas are such an anomaly that such methods at least need to be tested on them, that's fine. More information is always good, and I've already offered to help you.

why practice on something which can't pass a test like this? Why adopt a method going forward which can't handle predicting the past? And, unless that test is made, how do I have any idea whether the numbers or signals it is giving me have any value?

Valuation does not predict!

For those of us who have been using such methods long term (and I by no means put myself in the same class as these prominent investors) these methods have been tested and they have passed. If you consider it necessary to backtest them on a group of stocks which you consider anomalous, I think that's great. As I said before, I'm even willing to help you do it. As you've said before, you lack the time and inclination to do it, so unless somebody else shares your interest but has more time to do the testing, it isn't likely to be done.

- Pirah



To: Thomas Mercer-Hursh who wrote (47866)10/15/2001 1:56:03 PM
From: Stock Farmer  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 54805
 
Hi Thomas,

I have returned from a sleepless weekend with a pack of cub-scouts in the woods. And now see the discussion on valuation has led you to offer up a complicated test against which you would have us run our methods of valuation... circulating around this point:

But then why practice on something which can't pass a test like this? Why adopt a method going forward which can't handle predicting the past? And, unless that test is made, how do I have any idea whether the numbers or signals it is giving me have any value?


And spiraling off into several tangents. On the surface, this application of the scientific method seems reasonable. But then how does the method you currently practice fare under such tests?

Oops, it doesn't.

I also suspect that you haven't performed the tests at all on what you use, or want to use, and instead toss these up as some academic froth for others to chew on. Which makes them hypothetical tests. And less tested by practice than the methods that have been offered up to you... hmmm.

Which leads me to note that this hypothetical test method of yours has neither succeeded in identifying a successful valuation method nor discrediting an unsuccessful valuation method. Which by your logic would make it merely a theory... until such time as your test is tested against its ability to test methods... - vbg - ...

So we can trapse down that rat-hole with you as far as you would wish. I personally think it's a total waste of time and tangential to the thrust of the discussion.

Which might be on how valuation methodologies apply specificly to GGamers.

John