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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: thames_sider who wrote (32763)	10/14/2001 4:11:15 PM
From: Greg or e	Respond to of 82486

"And I believe absolute truth is not to be found in the visionary dreamings of ancient men and their books of wishes." "I don't claim absolute truth for it" You don't have to, your statements make absolute truth claims all by themselves. How about this one; "I say no, neither of us can actually know - no one can." You've just said, that you know it's true that we can't know? How do you know that statement is true? I guess the question I have for you would be; Is there any truth to your statement at all? If there is, then aren't you just trying to evade the taste of your own medicine, and does not your position die the death of a thousand qualifications? But I see what you are trying to say. Your beliefs are exempt from criticism, because you have based them other things that you know to be true. You don't see any contradiction in this? How could you possibly "know" these things when "neither of us can actually know". I know, (but i could be wrong) that your not stupid, so I can only conclude that you are just being willfully ignorant.

To: thames_sider who wrote (32763)	10/15/2001 12:46:43 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

A relativist can believe things, state things, affirm things. He (or indeed she) also recognises that he may be mistaken, and that his opinion is just that. It may be better backed up by logic, by observation, by the witnessing of others, by evidence... it may even be backed up by natural law, inescapable physical truth, in which case it's rather foolish to doubt it. I'm not relativist about gravity, for example. But I don't claim the right to dictate others' feelings, beliefs or wishes, and don't claim truth overriding them. I recognize that I may be mistaken. My point is that being mistaken about moral issues has meaning. To clarify, I think there is objective truth, and I have strong opinions about what that objective truth is, but I recognize the possibility that my opinion may be wrong. I even recognize the possibility that my opinion about gravity might be wrong. The possibility might be considered so low that I don't have to worry about it normally but its possible that none of the evidence of my senses has any correlation with actual reality. I don't claim the right to dictate other's feelings, beliefs or wishes but I might state that someone elses feelings or beliefs are incorrect. Tim