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To: UnBelievable who wrote (129234)	10/14/2001 7:48:27 PM
From: yard_man	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Well put. That is 1/2 of it ... control and availability of cheap oil is the other. And I think there are at least two or three positions with those in the US who are pro-Israeli. First, there is a large number of Christian folks who believe that the covenant that God made with the Jews was a guarantee of ownership of that land and that to not support Israel would be against God. Second, there are a number of people who have a "secular" sympathy for the Jews -- their history of mistreatment -- and believe they in fact do deserve a homeland and that we as "leaders of the free world" owe them our support and defense. Finally, there are those who regard our ties to Israel as very strategic. Our sole, close ally in the region, they are a stabilizing force. Some of these positions overlap I am sure. Clearly, it has been very costly for us to support Israel in many ways, but we have also gained some things from our support. How could we practically change direction now after having been instrumental in displacing peoples and helping to establish the present-day nation of Israel? I'm not personally happy with all of their policies as I am sure President Bush is not ... what's the right course?

To: UnBelievable who wrote (129234)	10/14/2001 8:02:32 PM
From: Mark Adams	Respond to of 436258

It occurred to me, while reading what is below, that there clearly are forces in the Mideast which want this to be a fundamental religious conflict. Later it also occurred to me that various posters on this thread, and others, appear equally adamant to make this a fundamental religious conflict, to various degrees. Regardless of the individual religious beliefs on either side of the argument, I don't think the Jews are in control of the western media, or responsible directly or indirectly for the terror attacks in various parts of the world. And I don't believe that rabid voices from either side of the precipice do themselves justice promoting a long standing conflict based on religious beliefs which include a supreme being who views them as brothers despite their differing beliefs. Walk a mile in their sandals, then get back to me. The extract; "The vast bulk of Muslims in Palestine and the rest of the world condemned the 11 September events in America. However, Muslims can't condone the killing and maiming of thousands of Afghani men, women and children for the purpose of punishing one man," said Hamas official in al Khalil, H. Kawasmi. Asked why some Palestinian protesters held portraits of bin Laden during last week's demonstrations in Gaza and Nablus, Kawasmi said "those people were very few and we ordered them not to do it, besides holding the portraits was more of an expression of anger at America's wanton support for Israeli occupation and less an expression of support for bin Laden." Kawasmi complained that the world media, especially the Jewish-controlled American media, was always "seeking to accentuate the negative" and "routinely ignored Palestinian condemnation of the 11 September terrorism in the US." Meanwhile, another Islamist leader admitted that Hamas and other Islamic organizations in Palestine can't "publicly and openly demonize bin Laden." "If we say publicly that bin Laden is a terrorist and criminal, people will consider us as Israeli and CIA agents; on the other hand, if we glorify bin Laden we will be unfaithful to our Islamic ideals which forbid the killing of the innocent," said Hussein Ta'amari of Bethlehem. irna.com

To: UnBelievable who wrote (129234)	10/14/2001 8:23:00 PM
From: Mark Marcellus	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

The fact is that if the US where to end its support for Israel, Muslim terrorism in the United States would end. I am not making a judgment but stating a fact. Bull. Not sure what this topic is doing on this thread, but Palestine has little to do with what Bin Laden and his henchmen are all about. For them it is, at the most, a side issue which will take care of itself once the larger issue of Western influence over Islam is taken care of. Bin Laden and the al Qa'ida have shown little interest in Palestine except when it suits them as a propaganda tool.

To: UnBelievable who wrote (129234)	10/14/2001 9:16:07 PM
From: Les H	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

You can't look at the Middle East in isolation. You can look at a number of other regions where they've exported populations and rebellions: Balkans, India, Phillipines, Indonesia, etc. I recall a similar dynamic occurred in these states which resulted in the loss of territories by Spain and Mexico. Wasn't it called "manifest destiny"?