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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Narotham Reddy who wrote (5360)	10/15/2001 9:51:16 PM
From: ratan lal	Respond to of 281500

ATol: The concept of jihad itself was elaborated in seventh century Arabia. In your opinion, what is the relevance of such a concept to the 21st century? Jamal: Jihad as we know it now started only after the CIA and ISI [Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence agency] started jihad in Afghanistan. Before that, jihad was a dormant concept Interesting statement from this highly internationally educated muslim. Wonder if his book contained this statement BEFORE sept. 11 or did he arrive at this statement AFTER sept. 11 ? I think the West developed only after it abandoned Christianity and adopted science Listen to this man for he speaks the truth. I would go one step further and say abondon god and stick with science. one will never know god even if one searches all one's life. Science on the other hand can be understood and knowledge passed on to future generations. Thats why science has achieved so much whereas god has remained stagnant. Jamal: When the CIA started jihad in Afghanistan, Shias in Afghanistan also participated in the struggle against the Soviets. But later the anti-Shia forces took over jihad - and the jihad started eating its own children. The Shias in Afghanistan are mostly concentrated in the Hazarajat region. They are also slightly spread out in the west. This phenomenon has international aspects as well. One reason is the Saudi influence on the Afghan jihad. You remember the Saudis were matching America dollar for dollar. And Saudis had a lot of influence over the mujahideen in Afghanistan. This influence was one of the important factors which turned the mujahideen and the Taliban against the Shias in Afghanistan. The second reason is related to internal Pakistani politics. In Pakistan, Zia-ul-Haq was seeking a support base among the Sunnis of this country. And he strenghtened a lot of Sunni organizations and parties, a lot of them Deobandi - which eventually turned against the Shias because they were also receiving money from the Saudis and other Middle Eastern shaykhdom (kingdoms). Since the Middle Eastern monarchs were against Iran, these parties also turned against Shia in Pakistan. The Afghan factor multiplied the tension between Pakistani Shias and the Deobandi organizations. Manipulations and more damned manipulations. Jamal: I believe jihad has been spreading since the Afghan jihad started. <snip>In the last two decades, jihad has been spreading because the Muslims have found a very lethal way of combating their enemies - and expressing themselves - thanks to the CIA. <snip>It was only after the Palestinians learned armed jihad in Afghanistan and Pakistan. In the Philippines, the Abu Sayyaf group is very much linked with organizations in Afghanistan and Pakistan. In Chechnya as well, the Saudis are very much involved - through Wahhabi organizations in Pakistan. <snip>Most of these jihadi movements are one way or another linked to jihadi movements in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And both countries have become a source of training, arms and ammunition to these organizations. <snip> Amazing that a muslim living in pakiland is willing to link pakistan and afgahnistan as training centers for jihaids. Yet the US is taking the assistance of pakistan instead of declaring it a terrorist state.

To: Narotham Reddy who wrote (5360)	10/15/2001 9:53:12 PM
From: HG	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<<<most mujahideen prefer to get married in Paradise. Apart from jihad, they do practice namaz (the ritual of five prayers a day) regularly, they very regularly fast, but they ignore other concepts of Islam. They say jihad is the summit of Islam. So if you have found the summit, you have found the whole thing. This is what they are taught. They believe jihad will bring them honor in the world, they will become powerful. The heroes of the mujahideen have always been generals. No Muslim scientist, or intellectual, or artist has ever become a hero. It's a military tradition that dominates the mujahideen.>> Thank you for such a detailed piece on the concept of jihad. I found this bit very intriguing. I know many moderate moslem families and friends from kashmir who escaped from Kashmir just because one fine evening a gun totting 'religious mojahideen', commander of some GodForsaken group turned up at their doorstep demanding "You have a beautiful daughter who is of a marriageabe age, we'd like you to marry her to me/my next in charge/my cook." If the head of the family dared to refuse or question, the so called "religious mujahideen" would say "Well, if you can't give her to us in marriage, we'll just rape her and make her a prostitute at one of our brothels". The poor father, shaking with fright, would say "Okey, tomorrow we can have the weding at 1 o'clock. Outwardly, he woud prepare for the wedding, inwardly he'd gather his family and disappear into the night, take the first bus to Jammu and then New Delhi. From my Moslem friends i learnt that a few were caught trying to escape. Their families were murdered and the women put in deserted houses converted into brothels......they are still there... The 'religious mujahideens' soon caught on and got pissed off with this routine, and they began taking the girls away into custody at the time the proposal was made. Often, the savage bridegrooms could not even wait till the wedding and would rape the girl immediately, at whim or to dissuade her from escaping. He could then choose to marry her, or leave her to her family if he didn't found her 'satisfactory'...and in an orthodox Indian setup, be it Moslem or Hindu, a raped woman can rarely ever hope to live with dignity. Sometimes the girls were added to their harems. I think the world knows very little of what went on in the name of Islam and religious jihad....and how pious and God fearing these animals really are. The sad part is, they did this to their own women, for Hindu's had fled much before this trend started...