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To: Dan3 who wrote (145537)	10/17/2001 1:58:49 PM
From: Paul Engel	Respond to of 186894

Blow Boy Dan - Re: "When they're done, their plain .13 copper process will be a year behind AMD's SOI/Copper ." YOu said the same thing 12 months ago - when you reported that AMD was already (last year) in production on their 0.13 micron process. You were WRONG THEN. YOu are WRONG NOW. And your beloved AMD is going to report a TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR LOSS TODAY - and forecast a LOSS FOR NEXT QUARTER !!! SWEET !!!

To: Dan3 who wrote (145537)	10/17/2001 2:00:09 PM
From: fingolfen	Respond to of 186894

The name of the game being played is "make the other guy's FABs obsolete." AMD prematurely obsoleted $10 Billion dollars worth of Intel FABs (the whole .18 AL generation) with their .18 copper process while Intel has managed to obsolete Austin with its new .13 copper Celerons. The difference is, AMD had already depreciated Austin down to its real value (about zero), while Intel continues to pretend that the part of its FAB capacity that has been rendered worthless is worth $5 Billion. Such concepts are way, way, way, beyond your comprehension, so why should I bother to even attempt to explain them to you? Intel's copper .13 barely beats AMD's copper .18, and AMD is ramping copper .13 and copper/SOI .13. Intel is taking about a year and a half to go from AL .18 to CU .13 at $7.5 Billion per year, so the actual cost of moving to copper for Intel is closer to $12.5 Billion. When they're done, their plain .13 copper process will be a year behind AMD's SOI/Copper .13 process and Intel will have to spend another $5 Billion to $10 Billion to catch up - by which time AMD will again be ahead. Dan, there are so many problems with your "logic" there it's frightening. Do you really THINK like that??? 1) It's a lot easier to make a process obsolete than a fab. Fab's can always be refitted. You do realize that the fab in which Intel's 0.13 micron copper process was developed was running 0.18 micron production during the entire development process??? The D1B/F20 facility was the lead fab on both 0.18 micron and now 0.13 micron. D2 also produced a fair amount of 0.18 micron and is now on 0.13 micron. So it doesn't sound like any fabs have been "obsoleted" by the move to copper. 2) A fab doesn't depreciate to zero until it can't be used for anything at all. AMD closed two ancient legacy process fabs (Intel has done the same over the years). 3) I don't know where you get your delusions regarding the relative performance of a manufacturing process, but Intel has always been one of the industry benchmarks for transistor and interconnect performance. Please show me technical papers proving the technical superiority of the AMD manufacturing process. 4) So how are AMD's 300mm plans going? Again, your central thesis had no backing and was based on incorrect assumptions. Any conclusions drawn from that thesis are therefore invalid.